 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-15 16:43
Ok, I know there are those of you out there that snug the adjustment screw down right against the top of the "G#" key (you know who you are) to eliminate ANY play between these two keys. As an 'old school' player I have always left a slight bit of play here to accommodate the inevitable swelling of the "A" key pad. When this happens, the "G#" key will leak slightly causing all sorts of issues with sound and surefootedness of technique. This can, and does happen with ANY standard pad - fish bladder, cork, leather.
HOWEVER
I have been playing on Valentino Masters for a few months now. Amongst some of the many good things there are to say about them (I reserve the right to get wordy under their own topic) I feel EVERYONE should have at least one Valentino Master pad (or Kraus Omni Pad) and it should be on the "A" key. With this one synthetic pad there will NEVER be a need to leave play at this juncture............... of course as an 'old school' geezer I still leave just a hair of play (ya can't teach an old dog, period).
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-15 17:01
It's always best to leave as small a gap as is possible depending on the type of pads used. As I generally use cork pads, the gap is very small between the adjusting screw tip and the throat A key. On softer pads that may compress, it's best to initially leave a larger gap within reason, then when the clarinet comes back for a six monthly check, then it can be adjusted as the pads will have settled down and the felt will have compressed.
But with skin or leather pads, always go on the side of caution as they can swell if they're porous for whatever reason. With soft synthetic pads, best to initially leave a reasonably large (but not excessive) gap, then check on them in a few months down the line to see how much they've compressed and make any adjustments then.
To be doubly safe, have both throat A and G# keys padded with the same kind of pad as both pads will get waterlogged, so both will be affected instead of one being more or less affected than the other.
The worst throat G# adjusting screws were fitted on Selmers and were the ones with the rubber tip. Not only did they give a squishy feel to the throat A key, they're not easy to regulate and still maintain a snappy feel - best removing the rubber tip and fitting a nylon one in there and doming it for much better action.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-12-15 17:37
Thanks guys for the thorough explanation......
Bob Draznik
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2013-12-15 19:44
I believe German clarinets don't have this connection at all - i.e. when you press the A key, the Gsharp stays shut. It's not quite obvious to me why Boehm clarinets have to be different: all you'd need would be to make the A hole larger or higher up. The only price to be paid would be that trilling Gsharp to A would be a bit sharp - but apparently this doesn't bother the Germans (can any Oehler players advise? maybe there's another way to do that trill).
Is there any other advantage to having both keys opening in synchronisation? If not, then you'd have to say it's a bit of a design flaw. I certainly agree with Paul that you want the adjusting screw to leave a healthy gap, so as to be completely sure the Gsharp key doesn't open slightly by accident.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-15 22:12
I think they're linked on Boehms to give full venting and make things smoother - on non-Boehms you have to release the throat A key as you open the G# key which can be a bit lumpy. On Boehms the G# key is already open so you just release the throat A key while holding down the G# touch.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-12-16 00:33
Paul, are those the Valentinos with the black covering? My repairman recently replaced some of the large pads in the lower joint with the black Valentinos and they seem to seal very well and are quiet.
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-16 01:11
Old clarinets often have completely separate Ab and A keys, both pointing straight up. That creates the difficulty of having to lower the Ab key while you open the A key. Alternatively, the design could be to sound A when both keys are open, but that still requires that you open two keys separately
It seems to me that needing to get off the Ab key to play A is a bad design, even though old clarinets and some (though not all) modern German clarinets are made that way. The "crossover" design is a brilliant invention, ranking alongside the crowsfoot, the patent F#/C# and the automatic double register key mechanism for bass as ideas that are obvious only in retrospect, and which greatly improve the ease of playing.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-16 02:09
Ken, I'm glad you mentioned that the lack of a cross-over is not universal in German clarinets. I have been recently fixated with the "Gerold" clarinets from Austria. Amongst all their listed technical improvements I could not help but notice that Gerold Angerer DID NOT mention the Boehm style cross-over he features on all his clarinets. When I asked him about this, he commented that it isn't worth mentioning since many German clarinets are already configured this way. Of course the Wurlitzers ARE NOT. And yes, it is a hardship to move from an "A" to a "G#" on a Wurlitzer after years on a Boehm. The "G#" trill though is with a side key
And Karl,
I refer to the Valentino Masters Series. To my knowledge these pads come in a solid white model or a beige colored model. In the beige ones (the type I have) you can very easily see the discrete three layers comprised of three different pliabilities. And unlike the original Valentino pads, they don't develop really deep concavities from the tops of the tone holes.
...................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2013-12-16 02:12)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-12-16 15:04
I use a cork pad in that key, all the top joint pads except the 1/1 key and I've never had a problem with what you described. I also don't recall any of my students ever having that problem either, and I've had many of them.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2013-12-17 04:38
Don't forget that the keys themselves will expand and contract a small amount with changes in temperature. The change in dimension is small, but it does happen, so you need to allow a little free play.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-17 10:42
Thanx BartHx for the additional thought on the keys themselves. Where I have run into expansion and contraction though was with plastic clarinets being played outside in frigged temperatures. Turns out the length of the horn was in play here, binding the long keys at the bottom. I wound up OVER doing the play in these keys at room temperature to ensure this did not happen.
The actual keys themselves may expand and contract by a hair but you'd have to be playing in extremes of temperature to experience this. Within the context of normal playing situations the temperatures we speak of would be only fluctuations of "comfortable room temperature" and not enough to cause any noticeable difference.
....................Paul Aviles
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