 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jim riggs
Date: 2013-11-02 22:07
I am cleaning up a schreiber & shone hard rubber clarinet. I've polished the
plated key works. The hard rubber body, barrel, joints and bell, have been
painted black. It looks like a factory job. About half of the paint has come off
for various reasons and I would like to remove the rest. I think the hard rubber
would look ok once the instrument is cleaned up. my question is: What is a
good safe way to remove the remaining black paint without damaging the
hard rubber surface?
thanx Jim riggs
jriggs@dc.rr.com
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Author: jim riggs
Date: 2013-11-03 01:07
it appears to be painted by schreiber when they made the instrument.
My feeling is that they did it to make it look like a wood or plastic clarinet
rather then the odd "grey green" of hard rubber.
When I got the clarinet.(a few weeks ago) it had what looked like key oil
over much of the area of the key works. My guess is that whatever that greasy
stuff is, it has been there a while and has loosened the factory black paint. On that area, the black paint can be easily scraped off with your fingernail. On other areas, where the former owner(s) hands have touched the body by use over time, the original black paint has worn off showing the bare hard rubber. I can easily wipe off the factory black paint on the sludgy oily portion but that still leaves the factory black paint on other portions of the instrument. That's where my question comes in. What can I use to loosen and therefore remove the factory black paint that won't negativley effect the hard rubber. My goal is to remove all the black paint and have whole body the hard rubber color.
jriggs@dc.rr.com
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2013-11-03 11:16
Try using standard paint stripper from your local hardware store. My favorite brand is Strip-x. Simply moisten a small rag with paint stripper and just wipe the paint away. I've all ready tried it on my broken hard rubber clarinet and it didn't damage the finish.
Good luck.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-11-03 12:06
Wet and dry sand paper may be enough to remove the lacquer (paint) from the factory. Auto parts stores carry the finer grades. Many paint strippers are toxic. Acetone, if it works, is safer than many other solvents.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-03 16:19
>> My guess is that whatever that greasy
stuff is, it has been there a while and has loosened the factory black paint. On that area, the black paint can be easily scraped off with your fingernail. On other areas, where the former owner(s) hands have touched the body by use over time, the original black paint has worn off showing the bare hard rubber. I can easily wipe off the factory black paint on the sludgy oily portion but that still leaves the factory black paint on other portions of the instrument. >>
In my stained glass business, I often had to remove paint from antique windows, with no information about what kind of paint it was. Sometimes it was latex. Sometimes it was oil-based. Sometimes it turned out to be some sort of varnish or shellac instead of paint. Different paint removers gave better or worse results. Since I was removing paint from metal or glass, I could feel free to experiment. The chemicals wouldn't soak in, discolor or otherwise mar the glass. If the metal got discolored, it didn't matter, because those areas were right next to the frames where I was going to have to re-patinate after restoration anyway. Things aren't quite so simple with a clarinet, because I'm pretty sure that hard rubber is vulnerable to discoloration (and possibly even texture deterioration) from chemicals.
Since you're able to get some of the black paint off manually, it might be wise to smear some of that paint onto a piece of stiff cardboard and test different types of paint remover on there. That way you can reduce the number of experiments on the clarinet itself. Once you know which type of remover will do the best job of dissolving the paint, then you can test that remover in a small area of an inconspicuous place, such as the inside of a tenon, where you can see whether or not the paint remover discolors or damages the hard rubber.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-03 17:52
Try WD-40 first. Avoid the stuff made from citrus, which smells awful and doesn't work very well.
Acetone is great, but you should test it on an inconspicuous spot -- say, inside the bell -- to make sure it doesn't spoil the surface. Also, it gives off toxic fumes and is EXTREMELY flammable. You should use it only with a fan behind you, or preferably outdoors with the wind to your back.
It's available at hardware stores. Buy the smallest can you can get (usually a quart). It will have a metal seal, which you'll need to punch through with a small screwdriver. It evaporates so fast that you can't save any for the next time -- it gets through any seal other than the original metal one. While you're at the hardware store, buy a package of cheesecloth to rub the paint off with. Then go to a drug store and buy a box of powdered vinyl (not latex) surgical gloves to use while you work.
Ken Shaw
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2013-11-03 18:42
Don’t be too anxious about acetone. It’s a natural substance also produced in our own metabolism. In my experience (I use it frequently for cleaning purposes in metal or epoxy work) it is less aggressive than many other solvents. The fumes, on the other hand, are indeed explosive, and for the dizziness they cause you better use whisky. While reading this thread I have tried Acetone on an old hard rubber mouthpiece, and it didn’t any harm.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-11-03 19:10
This is a first for me, I have never till now heard of a hard rubber (ebonite) clarinet being painted.
Hard rubber when new and polished is very nearly black anyway - just look at any hard rubber mouthpiece.
Are you absolutely sure it is paint ?
It could just possibly be that the oil and or finger greases have affected the polished natural black surface finish of the original hard rubber.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2013-11-03 20:16
He said he could scrape it off so it's probably paint. And again, use paint stripper.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-04 13:07
Lacquer and shellac will also come off with finger-scraping, and so will some varnishes, so the stuff on there could be a bunch of different things. In all my years as a flea market / yard sale / junktiques cockroach, I've seen loads of hard rubber clarinets, but never a painted one. Of course I haven't seen everything, but I wonder whether the ... artist didn't work for the factory. Some previous owner might have gone to the trouble of taking all the keys off and painting / lacquering / shellacking /varnishing the clarinet to get rid of the greenishness and make the clarinet fit in better with others in a band. I think stripping it is an excellent idea.
Fumes from all those remover products are toxic to some degree, so please do work in a well-ventilated place, as others have recommended. In my stained glass business, I wore a mask and used my exhaust fan for that kind of work.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: jim riggs
Date: 2013-11-16 04:34
Thanks for the great response to my problem.
I got the answer from Mr Ted Ridenour. The Ridenours make Ebonite clarinets.
I've never played one but I understand that they are used by a number of pro
players. Ebonite (hard rubber) is more stable than wood used in clarinets.
Any way, Ted told me that when hard rubber is actually white in color when it's
new. Strange, but he aught to know.
The mysterious black stuff on my clarinet is actually shoe dye. Yes you heard me
right. That is what the Ridenour Co. uses. The brand of dye is:
Fiebing's Leather Dye. They make many types of dyes but the one that Mr.
Ridinour uses is USMC Black. I got mine by going to: www.fiebing.com.
It was $3.50 plus shipping. A four ounce bottle but that's plenty to do a couple
doz. horns.
As I mentioned, 1/2 of my inst. was still original black. The rest was a dull gray-
greenish color. Mr R. told me exposure to the sun will do that to hard rubber.
My guess is that the original owner of this inst. spent a lot of time in a marching
band on the parade field. The whole front of the inst. was effected by the sunlit
effect.
The rest of the story: I used the dye and it was like a miracle. The inst. looks
new. I didn't have to remove the old black. Just dyed right over it along with the
worn off part.
Thanks again all of you respondents. Special thanks to Ted Ridenour..
Jim Riggs
jriggs@dc.rr.com
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Author: jim riggs
Date: 2013-11-16 04:50
Hi Lelia. Thanx for your thoughts. If you didn't see my post a/o today, of the
"final answer" about the paint dilemma, you can check that out. But because
it sounds like you are not a clarinet player, let me give you the simple scoop.
It turns out that the black substance is a dye made for leather goods.
A clarinet manufacturer contacted me an explained it. Fieging's Leather dye is
what they used. It got a bottle and it worked like a charm..
Good luck in you glass business.
jim riggs
jriggs@dc.rr.com
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-16 15:06
Excellent information! Thank you! My husband is a book binder and uses Fiebing's quite a lot, so I'll remember this thread if I come upon a hard rubber clarinet with this type of problem. I didn't know anything about hard rubber starting out white or this use of Fiebing's. This sort of thing is why I like to hang around on this site.
I've been playing clarinet since 1957, btw, with a gap of nine years when I "quit forever" after high school. I don't collect clarinets, however. No, I don't. Honest. My nose isn't really getting longer; that's an optical illusion .... ;-)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-11-16 21:00
Interesting to hear of White hard rubber - is that before the vulcanisation process is done?
I have many hard rubber mouthpieces ranging from new to > 50 years old and none has ever appeared white.
As a repairer I regularly turn hard rubber rod and have never cut into any material that is a significantly different colour from the surface layer (excepting of course when that surface has been exposed to extreme sunlight.
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2013-11-16 21:29
Hard rubber is white naturally but when being made into clarinets it is dyed than the bodies of the instrument is formed etc.....prolonged, quite prolonged as we've had very few cases, exposure to sunlight can make the dye bleed out of the instruments body. This is where leather dye comes in.
The clarinets are not white to begin with and then buffed with leather dye; it's simply a good solution if some of the original dye has faded.
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-18 12:24
Tom Ridenour wrote,
>
The clarinets are not white to begin with and then buffed with leather dye; it's simply a good solution if some of the original dye has faded.
>
Thank you for the clarification. Much appreciated!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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