 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-10-25 05:45
I'm interested in bass clarinet but generally have had size problems with woodwinds (too small.) For example, I find a Loree oboe to be too much of a stretch with my right hand to be comfortable, but a Rigoutat is fine. I tried one bass clarinet but don't remember the brand, and the reach was too much for my hand size. Is there any bass clarinet brand that is more suitable for small hands? I was considering the Yamaha 221 II based on reviews and it's a student instrument, which might fit smaller hands better. I hate to order one just to send it back after five seconds of finding out that my hands are too small.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-25 09:00
Is there any way you can try one out before committing to buy to be sure the finger spacing is right for you?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-10-25 14:37
EaubeauHorn, I have the same problem! I hope you can try before you buy, because there are different kinds of small hands, and what works for me might not work for you. I can reach an octave on the piano, but it's an octave with my fingers stretched out. My palms are small-ish, but the main reason my hands are so small is finger-length: very short.
My bass clarinet is a 1430P American Selmer from the mid-2000s. My contra-alto clarinet is a Bundy 1440 from the 1980s. That model has now been re-named American Selmer. I have two alto clarinets, a 1979 wooden Paris Selmer and a plastic Selmer Bundy that's probably a bit older. All of these have convenient keywork for me and all of them have extended range, by the way -- the extra key is not a problem for me.
In general, the Selmer and Buffet clarinets suit me best. I play mostly Buffet sopranos. I've tried Buffet basses and contras, and would have been delighted to buy those if affordable ones had happened to become available before I bought the Selmers.
The Leblanc clarinets I've tried are an uncomfortable stretch for me (and that's true for the sopranos as well as the larger ones). I don't have enough experience with Yamahas to generalize about them. But don't let anyone scare you away from the harmony clarinets as long as you can try before you commit. I also play saxophones, including bass sax!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2013-10-25 19:17
Key extensions are possible. I've had an older Selmer Series 9 bass for years, and was bothered (to the point of tendinitis) by the amount of extension required with my left-hand finger spread.
My tech was able to solder a key touch onto the ring-finger key cup and angle it so that the finger spread was much more comfortable. But then the left-hand lever keys required some physical adjustment on my part. (Theoretically I could have had extensions put on the lever keys as well, but I wanted to see if I could cope without the effort or expense.)
I like Lelia's advice. Also, the caveat about key extensions is, every little change you make in key alignment can throw off something else, so it'd be good to work with a tech who can spot such things before expensive alterations in key spread make OTHER expensive alterations necessary.
That said, my one little key extension has made my bass much more comfortable to play.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2013-10-26 00:43
Thanks for the info. I was interested in the Yamaha 221 II but don't know if I can find one locally to try. I've just been told that someone in a band I play in has a Yamaha but it may not be this model. I have longish fingers but still just reach an octave on the piano.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-10-26 01:00
Years ago Charles Bay sold a bass clarinet under his name which was a modified Vito, having various key extensions (including a U.S. dime coin soldered onto one of the touchpieces!) plus his then-novel re-angled neck. I believe it was designed for students with smaller hands than adult players. Certainly a standard Vito could be similarly modified and would be a decent instrument all around.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2013-10-29 05:30
Having the experience of play all Yamaha basses and the Selmer, plus owning a 221 myself, heed my words: The spacing of the keys are the same as their professional model. And the left hand middle C key is terribly far for me even though I have medium-large hands. And another reason not to buy a Yamaha: There are tuned sharper than what most international orchestras require. Therefor I discourage you from buying a 221.
There are some alternatives though, the Buffet 1180 should be a better choice, as it is tuned to what modern orchestras are tuned to. But if you want to reduce the problem of finger spacing, a Uebel 740 should be a good solution, as its German bore meant smaller finger spacing. However the cpmpromise is you'll have to learn the German fingering instead.
Josh
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-10-29 20:20
Heed his words, y'all.
Or as Hans and Franz used to say, "hear me now and believe me later".
Kidding aside, I think our young friend from HK is right about the pitch level of Yammie 221 basses; at any rate the two I've tried had to be pulled WAY out to get the pitch down to A-440 or thereabouts. One was so high I started looking for an "HP" stamp on the instrument..........
The Buffet 1180 is a single-register vent instrument very similar to a Noblet, and by virtue of having the name "Buffet" stamped on it, tends to be severely overpriced. Plays about the same as any Noblet or Leblanc model, or even a plastic Vito or old wood or hard rubber Malerne. I would avoid paying top dollar for one.
If you can find one (they're pretty rare), there was an Artley model 32S which was a pretty decent student horn and had really nice ergonomics. It was designed in-house by Artley and used a lot of the Charles Bay ideas. Not to be confused with the next (more recent) Artley model which, unfortunately, was just a re-branded Bundy.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2013-10-30 07:17
Thanks David! I'also like to point out that the Yamaha pro basses are sharp as well. When John Bruce Yeh last came to be the guest bass clarinettist of HK Phil he found his Yamaha was way too sharp. Thus he had to change to a Buffet instead.
Concerning this thread's main point, I can state that student instruments are not mmuch different from pro horns in terms of key design, though John Schertle of HK Phil told me that if you directly deal and discuss with Selmer, they might be willing to customize the keys for you, and that's what did on his Selmer Privilege bass. It's always wiser to do this on a pro horn rather than a student one, as it is more cost-effective, besides it's a waste of money to do it on a short lived student instrument.
Josh
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-10-30 12:38
"Short lived"? Bundys were built like tanks to survive school abuse. They last forever.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-10-30 15:55
I've also heard that these school basses were manufactured to higher musical standards than the soprano clarinets. That's because the harmony clarinets usually weren't bought by parents. The school band teachers chose which basses and contras to buy for the schools. Of course, parents don't want to buy junk, either -- but the manufacturers could count on those teachers to know enough to tell the difference between good and shoddy workmanship. Therefore the harmony clarinets sold in a more competitive environment than the sopranos.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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