 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: alanporter
Date: 2008-06-09 14:13
What are the pro's and con's of leaving a clarinet fully assembled instead of repeatedly taking it apart after playing ? Is there a difference in the answer between a wood and a plastic instrument ?
Thanks for your wisdom.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-06-09 14:28
The tenon corks will compress, the sockets will remain wet and with wooden clarinets the tenons can swell and bind in the sockets (due to the effect of the water remaining in the sockets) so you'll have trouble taking it apart.
Best policy (with both wood and plastic clarinets) is to take it all apart, dry the bore with a pullthrough and dry the sockets with a piece of kitchen paper (instead of using the pullthrough to do this will make the pullthrough greasy, and the grease will coat the bore and collect in toneholes) and put it back in it's case after playing - not only will this let the tenon corks recover (and the sockets will dry), but while in it's case it's far less likely to get damaged compared to being left together and laid down or left on a stand.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-06-09 14:28
Yes. Leaving the instrument together will eventually invite the cork to rot. In wooden clarinets not allowing the sockets/tenons to dry will eventually cause them to bind...and perhaps crack.
The instrument should almost never be left together.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hans
Date: 2008-06-09 14:39
Alan,
Cons:
Leaving a clarinet assembled for long periods may eventually result in compressed cork and a poorer seal between joints.
Leaving a wood clarinet assembled means that moisture in the joints will remain there to be absorbed. Wood absorbs moisture most easily from the end grain so that this should be avoided.
Pros:
You're more likely to pick it up and play if you don't have to assemble it first.
I take my (wooden) clarinet apart and dry the joints after each time that I play it. It will be 20 years in December since I bought it new, and the assembly/disassembly does not seem to have hurt it. All the cork joints, with the exception of one which "froze" when it was fairly new and had to be replaced, are original and are in perfect condition. Res ipsa loquitur.
Hans
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2008-06-09 15:53
I have a few clarinets (Evette & Schaeffer Bb, rebuilt R13 Bb, Couesnon A, Amati A, Couesnon Eb) which I have designated as my "practice clarinets."
Except for the mouthpiece, they stay assembled on the stands 24/7, 365 days a year.
Changing the tenon corks every few years is a small price to pay for having the convenience of being able to pick up a horn when needed and quickly play either a passage or have a longer practice session ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2008-06-09 18:52
Had an R13 brought in a few years ago with bell stuck onto lower tenon
(stupid design of some Buffet double cases means clarinet bell has to be on lower joint to go into case).
Player had left the A Bell in place for several years - and NOTHING I tried would shift it short of destroying the instrument - cork seemed to have welded to the bell. As far as I know that's how it remains today.
p.s. if you have one of those Buffet cases then always pull bell off tenon as far as possible when storing lower joint inside case.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-06-09 18:59
I leave a hard rubber clarinet assembled for months on end and there has never been a problem, BUT I have learned the hard way not to do the same with wooden instruments!
However, it's probably got a lot to do with how well you dry it after use, greasing the cork, the amount of moisture you produce and sudden humidity changes. Our humidity went from 25% to 70% over a few months(wettest spring ever?) so I'm extra careful!
Steve
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-06-09 20:49
"Had an R13 brought in a few years ago with bell stuck onto lower tenon
(stupid design of some Buffet double cases means clarinet bell has to be on lower joint to go into case). Player had left the A Bell in place for several years - and NOTHING I tried would shift it short of destroying the instrument - cork seemed to have welded to the bell. As far as I know that's how it remains today. p.s. if you have one of those Buffet cases then always pull bell off tenon as far as possible when storing lower joint inside case."
I recently overhauled on a pair of Prestiges where both bells were completely fused to the tenon cork as they'd been left on for years due to this type of case design.
It took some doing to shift them, but once I managed to get them off (without breaking the tenons off, though I'm sure that has happened), the tenon corks were completely perished and the bells wouldn't stay on. Also, the inside of the bell sockets had perished lumps of cork stuck to them too, so they took some cleaning up as well.
I've even seen instances where the cork has fused to the inside of the socket, but the glue has given way so the joints will turn as much as you like, but they won't seperate as the hardened cork is running in the groove in the tenon keeping the joints together.
It's a wonder that on the top model Selmer cases, the bells remain on in the case as on Buffet doubles. But the lower model Selmer double cases have all seperate compartments for each joint.
The single Yamaha Oehler cases are like this (for the 600 and 800 series), but the 400 series German system single case has it all seperated. But can I find anywhere that sells the German 400 series plastic single case on its own? Can I ... . Anyone in Germany know where I could get one of these cases from? I've tried the obvious places, but to no avail.
My single Selmer full Boehm case has the barrel remain on the top joint while in the case, but after playing I remove it and dry the sockets, then grease the cork before relacing the barrel before putting it back in the case.
Likewise with my Yamaha Oehler, remove the bell after playing to dry the socket, grease the cork and put it away. There's no extra space in the Yamaha German case to leave the bell part way on as in Buffet cases - I think the same applies to Selmer cases - the bells have to remain fully on while in the case.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hans
Date: 2008-06-09 21:36
Attachment: Recital Case.JPG (64k)
Chris P
Re: "It's a wonder that on the top model Selmer cases, the bells remain on in the case as on Buffet doubles.".. it was not always thus. My Recital case (I wish I could find a new one like it) separated all the parts. I guess manufacturers can sell more clarinets when the cases have a fatal flaw. Or have the accountants found a way to save 2 cents by making cases smaller?
Hans
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-06-10 02:45
I don't think it's a great idea for a good wood clarinet. How long does it take to put a clarinet together? Give me a break. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (listen to my Mozart 5tet M1)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tara
Date: 2008-06-10 04:26
I have always been puzzled with the "leave the bell on" double case situation (which I have for my buffets). I try to remember to take them apart every so often to rest a bit in an attempt to avoid the problems listed above. So far so good, as I've had no major issues, but they definitly get a little stiff, and I have always been concerned. Anyone else have tips for keeping this joint "healthy" in this kind of case? Btw, I never leave the horns assembled otherwise.
Tara
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LonDear
Date: 2008-06-10 05:19
I have never disagreed with Ed P's advice before, but I have been keeping my sopranos (Eb/C/Bb/A) completely assembled, even with reeds on for about 15 months.
[Disclaimer] I would NEVER leave a bass put together, because the corks get too loose.
On the sopranos, however, I leave all of them assembled and ready for a gig at all times, all in the same large custom case. I sometimes have to leave for a gig on a moment's notice, and have to have them on their pegs within probably four minutes of arrival.
What I do after a gig, promptly upon arriving home, though, I think is proper:
1: swab with silk, until dry, bottom to top
2: take it apart and use paper towels to pull out any condensation and remove all cork grease
3: grease the corks thouroughly
4: put the horns back in the large case, but not with any corks touching
The next day I put all of them together in preparation for the next gig.
So, my suggestion may be that if you are "on-call", keep your horns assembled and ready to go, but keep the corks well greased. If you come back from a gig and haven't had a chance to properly put your horns to bed, take some time to clean them up properly.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-06-10 06:15
-- "(stupid design of some Buffet double cases means clarinet bell has to be on lower joint to go into case). " --
A friend at work gave me his old clarinet to look at and hopefully get into playing condition for his young son. An old Couesnon, it has the smallest case I've ever seen. The clarinet is stored with the bell attached to the lower joint AND the barrel/MP attached to the upper!
Of course they were all stuck solid and it took me a while to get them apart, but I simply can't believe that a clarinet manufacturer would supply such a stupid case!
Steve
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-06-10 17:54
LonDear, I'm happy to hear that you haven't disagreed with me before; I'm an agreeable kind of guy. I was under the impression that you never took your instruments apart, just swabbed and let them sit. I really don't see a big problem with it since you dry the joints and corks of condensation, good word for spit, and grease the corks again before putting them back together. See, I told you I'm an agreeable kind of guy. I think what you're doing is fine. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (listen to a little Mozart)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ladolchivita
Date: 2013-08-06 14:49
""I recently overhauled on a pair of Prestiges where both bells were completely fused to the tenon cork as they'd been left on for years due to this type of case design.
It took some doing to shift them, but once I managed to get them off (without breaking the tenons off, though I'm sure that has happened), the tenon corks were completely perished and the bells wouldn't stay on. Also, the inside of the bell sockets had perished lumps of cork stuck to them too, so they took some cleaning up as well.""
Hi, Chris,
I have a wood 1800 flute with head cork stuck , I have oiled and even hammered but it doest move... Any tips? Would vinegar dissolves rot cork?
Thanks in advance,
Fernando
http://fercorrieri.wix.com/florieye
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-06 15:06
Do you mean the actual stopper cork inside the headjoint?
I presume you've put a wooden dowel or some other kind of rod in the bore (that won't damage the bore) and tried to hammer it out towards the end nearest the embouchure hole.
I'd suggest using some alcohol (isopropyl or methylated spirits) as alcohol won't raise the grain of the wood, then let it soak, then try pushing or hammering it out again.
Vinegar will make the headjoint smell, so I wouldn't use that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-06 15:18
Every flute head joint I've seen tapers to the top. The head cork must therefore be pushed out from top to bottom. If the cork adheres too tight, drill a hole down the center and scrape it out with a curved chisel.
Better yet, join the Yahoo Early Flute board http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/earlyflute/messages, which has the world's best makers (e.g., Rod Cameron) to give you advice.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-08-06 15:26
A wooden flute from the early 1800s will have a cylindrical bore headjoint (and reverse conical bore body) - it was after Boehm redesigned flutes that they had tapered headjoints (and cylindrical bodies) which was from the mid-1800s onwards.
Is it a simple system flute (with 1 to 8 keys) or a Boehm system flute (with full keywork as a modern flute)?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
