 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2013-02-22 16:37
The community band I play with has a challenging concert program coming up with more pieces than average including an E flat part (7 out of 10). While at first I was thrilled, the fact that these are all tough pieces featuring large sections of altissimo is a serious challenge to my chops (I more accustomed to having e flat parts on 3 or 4 of the maybe 10 pieces we might play at a concert).
Now, a week or so into rehearsals, it's also clear that many of those e flat parts merely double the first clarinets and/or flute/picc (which is pretty typical), but given the high range we're in for many pieces (i.e., for all of those instruments) woodwind section intonation is a bit wild at present. Further, we are also missing several 2nd and 3rd clarinets which is making making section and ensemble balance difficult.
For the sake of better ensemble balance and intonation, where the e flat part isn't unique or critical (i.e., it's merely doubling 1st clarinets or flute/picc), I'm feeling like dropping back to cover more of the 2nd clarinet is a higher overall musical priority....or should I just build the e flat chops, make the intonation work, and persevere?
(Btw -- the director has told me "do whatever you think is best")
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: marcia
Date: 2013-02-22 17:27
If you recognise the need for a balanced section, are willing to help make that happen, and have the support of your conductor, I'd say go for it. Making the best music possible. What a concept! And one that is not always present in community bands--at least that has been my experience.
Keep us posted.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-02-22 17:29
I would want a more definitivve answer from my director, but in absence of that, I would supplement the second parts where necessary, and where the eefer part becomes redundant.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris2787
Date: 2013-02-22 17:32
bradfordlloyd,
I play Eb clarinet in a community band as well, I also play in a wind ensemble. I really think it depends on how many flutes/clarinets you have and how big the band is in general. I love, love, love playing the Eefer. I sit next to the oboes and piccolos. But if the seconds and thirds need help give up the Eb part and play the Bb clarinet.
It's really all up to you! See how it sounds. Assess the situation. It sounds to me you are doing a great job so far.
Cheers,
Chris L.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2013-02-22 18:02
bradfordlloyd wrote:
> (Btw -- the director has told me "do whatever you think is
> best")
The thing is, you really aren't in the best position (or even a particularly good one) to judge what's best. The conductor, positioned in front of the whole band, has the best aural vantage point of anyone involved in the performance (someone listening from a position out in the hall would be even better).
Maybe he's afraid the full-time 2nds and 3rds will get hurt feelings if you move back and forth to reinforce them (will they?). Maybe he doesn't know for sure if your suggestion is driven by concern for balance or for your own endurance, and he's letting you make the call based on whether or not you need to limit the amount of Eb you play in the concert.
Are you sitting close enough to the 2nds to avoid sticking out just by having your sound come from a different direction?
If you can't get any guidance based on musical goals from the conductor, I guess my vote would be to reinforce the lower clarinet parts when it's convenient and the Eb part is expendable (doubles 1st) - it may be more important to have the Eb if it's only doubling flutes (and not other clarinets) because of the timbral quality it adds. But by doing that, you may end up playing more overall, which could exacerbate any endurance problems the high Eb parts may cause.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-02-22 18:51
I think that whatever you and the director decide, it's terrific that you're willing to consider playing the second clarinet part in order to strengthen the ensemble, instead of being a Me First snob. I'm not a conductor and I don't even play one on TV, but I think that if I were a conductor, I'd want to encourage that "we're all in this together" attitude by letting you bolster the seconds now and then (not only to help the seconds but to set a good example) while keeping you on eefer or first most of the time (to make clear to everyone that being cooperative doesn't lead to losing status).
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2013-02-22 18:56
In any case, there is no reason why you couldn't switch between Cl 2 and Eb, as needed. I will be doing that for our next concert. I normally am the principal 2nd in our band, but we are playing two Holst pieces (Mard and Suite in Eb) that have parts for two eefers. For those pieces, I will be playing 2nd Eb, behind our usual eefer. 
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2013-02-22 22:21
Something snaps when composers and arrangers decide to score for eefer that simply doesn't make sense in many situations, both "logistically" and musically: they write for the eefer in its altissimo, ignoring the rich timbres available in the lower registers of the horn!
This is a sad thing because the e-flat clarinet has a unique timbre all the way down to the bottom of the horn that can add to the ensemble sound, yet directors and players shy away from using the instrument because they associate it with out-of-tune screeching.
Even though I'm comfortable playing the e-flat clarinet in the altissimo, unless the character of the piece requires it (or I'm being particularly "good" about sticking to what is written, I often play down an octave when the e-flat part doubles the flutes and soprano clarinets or sounds as if it was added as an afterthought for no other reason than to give someone something to do (which seems common). I do this, not to make things easy for myself, but for the richness and interest added to the ensemble sound.
B.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2013-02-23 00:00
If it's written, the composer wants it, though it may not make any musical sense at all.
Disregarding the original, though heretical, is a personal decision, justified or not depending on how "pure" you want to be. If you don't want to be heretical, don't do it. If you don't fear that the music police will pay you a visit, you or your director decides on the basis of your own understanding
Let the flaming begin!
B.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-02-23 03:15
The most immediate hurdle you're going to face is the majority of concert band flute and piccolo players are ALWAYS SHARP (especially in the 3rd 8ve) and Eb clarinets will tend to play in tune to going flat up top, so any hope of playing high unison passages with those fundamental problems is out the window.
They won't back down as they firmly won't believe they're playing sharp (even though they are) so you're either going to have to join them or leave it out as you certainly can't beat them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2013-02-23 04:10
Thanks to all for the advice and guidance (and kind words, too).
I enjoy playing the e flat, but I enjoy making wonderful music even more. As Chris P noted, the flutes and picc are often quite sharp, and adding in some Bb clarinets playing altissimo can make for a mess. So, adding more challenges by inserting an Eb clarinet part when it is covered by other instruments, strikes me as unnecessary (and possibly even a step in the wrong direction).
I'm going to do some serious listening to recordings of what we're playing and make some choices about where I think the eefer is critical. I'll compare notes with the Director and make some choices from there.
The eefer can be a blast to play, and has a truly unique voice in a band. That said, the harsh reality is that it is not often written for expressly anymore, and that sometimes results in less than terrific parts (or no parts at all). Which, of course, should just make us appreciate those works where the instrument is put to wonderful use.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-02-23 04:34
The throat notes on Eb clarinets have a very unique quality of their own - whereas on Bb/A clarinets they can be weak, on Eb they have the most charming sound unmatched by any other clarinet.
If arrangers would realise Eb clarinets aren't just meant for reinforcement in high unison playing (taking the ideas from Mahler and Shostakovich), but have other registers that can offer a lot to the ensemble.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-02-23 13:56
>>As Chris P noted, the flutes and picc are often quite sharp, and adding in some Bb clarinets playing altissimo can make for a mess.>>
Yup -- although sometimes a composer might want that type of mess, for a moment in the music that's supposed to sound stressful and strident. I think conductors need to look out for the possibility that the composer is deliberately introducing an ear-twister, especially if it's apparent from the orchestration elsewhere that the composer's read his or her Rimsky-Korsakoff and knows what's what with the various instruments.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-02-23 14:19
Composers and arrangers should always consult instrumentalists rather than relying on range charts for each instrument as they will see a clarinet has nearly a four 8ve range and write accordingly, whether or not it's practical.
I was talking to someone only yesterday who did a show where the bass clarinet part was all well within the range of a Bb clarinet as well as being more practical to play it all on Bb clarinet anyway. Similarly, Mozart's Requiem is all within the range of A, Bb and C clarinets but it's far more practical to play it all on the one instrument (basset horn) which it was originally scored for.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2013-02-23 14:54
"Do whatever you think is best" and fire the director. If he/she does not have the aural ability to deternin balance and tambre within the ensemble, they should not be conducting.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2013-02-23 17:51
William: To be fair, we actually have a terrific and very experienced Director whom we all respect greatly. He sees his job as setting a high standard that the group can support.
However, like many community bands, there are certain politics and personalities that directors steer clear of. This is one of those areas (i.e., who would need to move to a lower part, which section is better in tune, etc.). So, his guidance "whatever you think is best" is probably more of a statement of empowerment that he sees the issue as well, and is allowing me to work within the section to solve it.
The question I'm asking is to what extent should I just barrel ahead and play my part as written/assigned, or to what extent should I reconsider the good of the whole group and the quality of music that we are playing? I think that there's a balance here somewhere.....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-02-23 17:56
If the Eb part is covered, then I'd play another part that isn't well covered. A lot of bands can benefit with having strong players helping out on 2nd and 3rd instead of leaving the weaker players all there together to struggle or leave out the tricky bits.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2013-02-23 22:16
Chris P wrote:
> I was talking to someone only yesterday who did a show where
> the bass clarinet part was all well within the range of a Bb
> clarinet as well as being more practical to play it all on Bb
> clarinet anyway.
It wasn't by any chance Oklahoma, was it? The verse of People Will Say We're In Love is scored for bass clarinet and, I think flute. It's the only bass in the entire show and does fit easily within a Bb clarinet's range when played an octave lower than what's written for the bass. Absolutely not worth lugging a bass into the pit and setting it up unless you're getting paid well for the double, which is why I suspect it's there in the first place. In the latest revival of Oklahoma there's also a soprano sax part - the only one - in the Farmer and the Cowman dance (it was written for Bb clarinet ij the original) in the same reed book as the bass part.
Sometimes parts are included to keep someone busy. Sometimes they're put there to provide someone a bigger paycheck.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Veldeb
Date: 2013-02-27 15:00
I'm very fortunate to play in a community band with 16 Bb's and 3 basses and a contralto. I usually play the Eefer and have recruited another to share the playing with me. Eefer parts can help the Bb's in the higher ranges particularly if intonation is a problem. I think an important point to consider is that the "color" - i like to say "shimmer" that the Eefer adds to the section offers something other than just the high notes. If you're finding the altissimo flat (on my RC Prestige I plunge above high D) you might try my lip saving fix - I just take everything above high D a half step up and don't add the Eb key. It's way easier to flatten the now slightly sharp note than to bust my lip!
We are also blessed with former professional players and performance majors.. the work around for the "me first" we've settled on is to divide our section A/B/C and group the really good and medium players in each and rotate the parts around so that no one person is "stuck" on third. Interstingly on the really tough pieces - we just performed Nitro and Niagara Falls - the 2nd part is often harder going back and forth over the break in the Clarion range. We also played Hands Across the Sea and the trio obligato ended up being a very lovely pic/Eefer duet giving it a completely different color than if it had been pic alone. I'm fortunate to have a director that loves the Eefer and its unique color it adds. He's one of the few that have ever told me "you can play out more" :-) Good luck playing!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-02-27 18:05
Karl, it was Oklahoma now you mentioned it.
In 'West Side Story' I've written some parts out for Eb as they're in unison with the Reed 2 when they're on Eb, so better playing in the upper register on Eb than in the stratosphere on Bb.
One concert band piece arrangement that could benefit with making more of the Eb clarinet is 'Fantasia on British Sea Songs' by Henry Wood - there's a high close harmony bridge section before the alto sax solo which is marked pp and goes to high F on clarinet (it's high muted strings in the orchestral version). I've put it on Eb (written out and stuck it in the Eb part) whenever I've played it in the past, especially if you know it's going to be like fingernails down a blackboard if the regular 1st/solo player isn't up to it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Buster
Date: 2013-02-27 18:29
Karl,
(Shhhh...) You've revealed a great secret of Broadway pit work: Governance by doubling fees.
-Jason
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gsurosey
Date: 2013-02-27 23:13
I play in a couple concert bands and have inquired about playing it, and the conductors will have no part of it. The clarinet section leader in one of them told me that someone else asked the conductor before and his reply involved half-joking threats of wrapping the instrument around that person's neck if they even though of bringing it. It's too bad, because an eefer played well can really add a lot. I've never had a problem playing it in orchestra (and I know the conductor would let me know if it didn't sound good).
Have others noticed (especially in concert band settings), that the eefer gets no respect? Any insights on that? If a less capable player is taken off a Bb clarinet part to play it and doesn't know about the nuances of the instrument, I can see how it won't work well (which also happens for alto and bass clarinets, and contra clarinets if they're available). An eefer isn't just a smaller clarinet, just like an alto or bass clarinet isn't just a larger clarinet. Each voice in the clarinet family has it's own quirks, but they can really add to the ensemble if played well.
Ok, I'm done ranting now.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2013-02-28 09:50
> Have others noticed (especially in concert band settings), that
> the eefer gets no respect? Any insights on that?
Well, I wouldn't say "no respect", but it is certainly viewed differently and a "nice to have" rather than a "need to have" in many cases. This, of course, is often supported by the fact that many composers and arrangers don't write parts for the eefer that are particularly meaningful (hence the genesis of this thread).
So, in a world where you're doubling the 1st clarinets/oboes/flutes/picc parts, with an instrument that is often seen as optional (or "icing on the cake") and known to be a bit "pitchy" (at least in the wrong hands, or in comparison to the generally sharp flutes/picc)....well, I suppose that a conductor may choose to avoid the eefer. (Note that Eb parts in orchestral literature tend to be very specific and purposeful and there doesn't seem to be much lack of respect for the instrument in that sphere!)
Again, back to the original issue of this string, I'm not so sure that dying on our swords to always play the eefer part in concert band repertoire just because there is one is such a great idea in terms of helping a group deliver the best possible quality music (especially if other clarinets parts are not fully covered, for example).
Of course, where there is a great eefer part (think Holst's First Suite in Eb, or pretty much anything by Grainger), we should all fight to have it played and use it as an opportunity to teach conductors just how wonderful an instrument the Eb really can be.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-02-28 22:46
Except they might lose that respect once they learn the part is in D...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: puffball
Date: 2013-03-02 17:21
I share eefer duty with another player in my community wind ensemble, which is a pretty serious group. The two of us are definitely the strongest players in the section, but the other clarinetists are no slouches (there are 10 of us altogether), so there's never really a need for additional coverage on other parts.
Before I played in this ensemble, my Eb experience was mostly in orchestras, and I've really enjoyed becoming better acquainted with the ways composers use the eefer in wind ensemble/concert band rep. Sure, there are plenty of times when it doubles other high woodwinds, especially flute and piccolo (and often very appropriately), but it's not unusual to find the eefer scored with saxophones (especially when there's also a soprano sax part) or trumpets. It's easy to tell when the composer has really thought about where the Eb timbre will add something unique to the blend. It's also clear that some composers don't really know what to do with it. I think if you judge that a piece falls into the latter category, and the Bb parts aren't adequately covered, it would probably be a better choice to help out on the lower parts.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: eeferboy82
Date: 2013-03-16 02:13
I completely agree. I've been playing the Eb clarinet for going on 16 years now and have encountered far too many conductors that hear that I play Eb clarinet and immediately go into a "well, I don't really think we need one of those right now" or "well, I don't really think it's worth all of the intonation problems" etc, all before they've heard me play a note on the instrument.
One little work around I've found to be helpful at avoiding those responses is that when I'm discussing Eb clarinet with conductor of a group I'm thinking of playing with, I'll say something like "I also play Eb clarinet and would *love to audition* on it, as well". Even if the group in question doesn't require auditions, in my experience, they're usually willing to hear you play. Then it's up to you to show them how wrong they are. I'll usually start the Symphonie Fantastique solo and usually get stopped pretty quickly and accepted as the Eb player, with a "wow, you really play that thing in tune!" If you have trouble with a stubborn conductor not wanting an Eb, try asking to audition. If you're a good player, there's no harm to them in just hearing you play.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: eeferboy82
Date: 2013-03-16 02:25
There are a lot more composers these days that understand how to really utlize the Eb. One good example is John Mackey. Very rarely do his Eb parts fall into a unison for any extended period of time, it's very much it's own character. Asphalt Cocktail, for example, has the Eb playing doing everything from a soli with the alto and soprano sax (though not doubling either), to fluttering with trumpets, to accenting/augmenting a pretty wicked Bb clarinet solo that just isn't the same without the Eb clarinet (it reminds me very much of the flute section "solo" in Daphnis et Chloe where the flutes pass back and forth, though it's meant to sound as if one flute were playing the whole thing). My point is, they're out there, they're just far and few between. I've played my fair share of pieces that *scream* for an Eb part but just have "Clarinet 1, Clarinet 2, Clarinet 3". I think more often than not, it's a bit of ignorance on the part of the composer. I've often noticed that composers that primaried on a brass instrument will often write for auxillary brass instruments and neglect auxillary woodwinds.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-03-16 02:49
FWIW: I am learning the Bb Clarinet, so I have absolutely, positively no experience with the Eb cousin.
HOWEVER, I did sing with a touring choir in my early days as a 1st Tenor. Additionally, I had a decent range with good support into the Baritone range. Often our Basses were tasked to sing in their upper range and could use additional support from me (in my lower range). It added a richer sound to our performances. It was hard work learning two parts, but it was worth it.
I say do what provides the best sound and performance.
Tristan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
