 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MSK
Date: 2006-03-17 00:15
I have a vintage Buffet A with a serial number that dates it to the year 1915. It has the modern style register key (not the wraparound), but I don't know what model it is. I purchased it from the famous online auction site at a price lower than used intermediate models. I've never been happy with the instrument though. Although the tone is gorgeous I've had trouble with intonation, stuffy notes, & sticky keys that the local repair guy can't fix. For comparison, My Bb is a 1971 R-13 and doesn't have these problems.
Are vintage instruments like this of good enough quality to be worth the inconvenience and expense of getting it to a really good tech?
Are any of the big 4 brands' intermediate models superior to a vintage instrument like this? (I haven't found a pro model A that is in my budget)
Thanks
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2006-03-17 00:44
There was an explosion of creativity in keywork during this period.
I doubt a standard Boehm clarinet setup would be better executed on older examples - mechanical parts do wear with use, after all.
If it was an extended mechanism, with additional range, perhaps it would be worthwhile for expensive retrofits.
Otherwise, there have been genuine improvements in the design and build quality in the intervening years...
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-03-17 13:54
I've messed around with a few Buffets of 1930s or earlier vintage, and I would say they were comparable to, and very similar in design and construction to, many other French clarinets of the era including Selmer, JTL/Thibouville Freres, M. Lacroix, R. Malerne, Couesnon, Edmond Chedeville, G.M. Bundy-Paris, Saintememe, etc. etc., as well as some of the better American clarinets of the time such as G. Pruefer and Penzel-Mueller. Back then Buffet wasn't the "600-pound gorilla" they are today --- they were just one of many good makers, and probably subcontracted much of their bore reaming and key fabrication tasks out to the specialists around Paris, as did the other makers then. This naturally led to much similarity between the various brands.
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-03-17 15:36
I like the way that Spiegelthal thinks, both here and in other postings.
I've read a number of comments about certain higher-end student model Buffets of the 1950s and 1960s sounding as good as--some say better than--the "pro" model Buffets made prior to WWII. The same argument has been made about individual higher-end student models from the first couple of post-war decades v. the R-13s made recently.
There are quite a few variables that could affect how good (or bad) any one particular instrument of any generation might sound--nearly all of them related to condition--but there is some general logic behind these claims.
By shortly after the end of WWII, some of the biggest improvements to bore shape and dimension, and key configuration, were being applied to the better Buffets. Perhaps more important, very good quality African blackwood was still available, and Buffet could be selective. Last, but not least, many of the old-school craftsmen were still in the business, and there was a great deal of pride and necessity behind turning out high-quality instruments in a country that was recovering economically from the war.
It would be interesting to put together a panel of several experienced players, having them do blind tests of various models and manufactures, both famous and unknown, from different time periods. I agree with Dave S. that some of the better-made brands that nobody recognizes anymore were probably as good as those that are icons of the industry now.
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Author: graham
Date: 2006-03-17 16:51
Indifferent intonation from a 1915 clarinet is something you have to expect. Modern clarinets are much better in tune by design, let alone the possibility that the wood in your older clarient has warped over the years. And there is a real prospect of it having been manufactured slightly sharper than A = 440. And if you play it on a modern mouthpiece, who is to say it is suitable? If you really like the tone then that will compensate for tuning difficulties. Try softer reeds as that might remove the stuffy aspects. Consider mouthpieces designed around the favoured approaches of the early 20th century.
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Author: MSK
Date: 2006-03-17 22:05
It sounds like post WW II clarinets are generally better. If I were to try and improve things with a different mouthpiece, what sort should I look for? I have already learned that it plays better with my Vandoren B45 than with my old 5RV.
Thanks for the input.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-03-18 02:17
I used to own a very lovely Buffet A clarinet made in 1911, with the wrap around register key. The tone was awesome, but the throat notes were way out of tune. Walter Grabner made a new cocobolo barrel for it, and there was a HUGE improvement in the intonation over what I was getting with the original barrel. It also greatly improved the stuffiness. You would be amazed how much difference a barrel can make!
As far as sticky keys, maybe you need a different repair guy? That should be fixable.
Sue ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: J B Lansing
Date: 2006-03-18 15:14
Just my two cents. I am no expert, but I understand that while modern A clarinets can use a mouthpiece interchangably with a Bb clarinet, early instruments did not. Perhaps you need an individual mouthpiece taylored for the A?
J B
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-03-18 15:51
Not necessarily, JBL --- Last year for a short while I had a full-Boehm JTL (Jerome Thibouville-Lamy) "A" clarinet, approximately turn-of-the-century vintage as far as I could tell, which worked just fine with my regular Bb clarinet mouthpieces; and my own "A", a hard-rubber M. Lacroix probably from the 30s or 40s, also works perfectly with standard mouthpieces. Depends on the individual clarinet, I suppose.
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-02-18 00:35
The wrap around register key is actually an interim style variation as earlier clarinets had straight register keys, even Boehm system. Like Boehms so early they had salt spoon pad cups, and even in boxwood with brass keys (yes they exist).
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Author: MSK
Date: 2013-02-18 02:57
Funny how old posts resurrect years later. If anyone is curious, I took the horn to Vince Marinelli. He fixed the sticky key and realigned a bent key that had been missed by the local guy. He also told me the instrument wasn't worth putting serious money into. About a year later, I had the money and bought an excellent second hand R13 A from Walter Grabner. I kept the antique as a back-up, but rarely use it.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2013-02-18 03:11
My 1935 Buffet (Bb) may be my favorite clarinet. And I've had Selmer Recital and late-model R13s. Oh well.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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