 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dtclarinet ★2017
Date: 2011-09-01 17:25
Has anyone out there tried the new Vandoren Masters mouthpiece? I'm curious. I like the M13 and M15s, but I'm wondering how different the new one is. The Vandoren site offers no detailed information about the bore or facing style.
Thanks,
David Thomas
Principal Clarinetist
Columbus Symphony Orchestra
David Thomas
Principal Clarinetist
Columbus Symphony Orchestra
Blog- TheBuzzingReed.com
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-09-01 17:38
compare to M13 lyre, for me, the new CL4 is less resonant (you could call it darker i suppose), more resistant (needs softer reed), and has a different sound (i'd say a bitter thinner but sweeter).
i went back and forth between M13 Lyre and CL4 and finally went back to the M13 lyre.
CL5 requires even softer reed.
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Author: dtclarinet ★2017
Date: 2011-09-01 17:51
thanks. that helps. doesn't sound like it's anything magically good.
David Thomas
Principal Clarinetist
Columbus Symphony Orchestra
Blog- TheBuzzingReed.com
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2011-09-01 18:07
I agree with TianL.
The CL5 is unplayable to me, as it is too resistant due to the tip being very open. I play on pretty soft reeds (Rigotti 3 light or Blue Box vandoren 3) and couldn't get it to go.
The CL4 is better, due to the closer tip it is less resistant. However, there were some general problems I found with the mouthpiece:
1) The feel is too resistant.
2) The sound is too mellow\dark and covered with little to no "ping" or "ring" in the sound. The sound is dead.
3) The pitch is a bit high (similar to a traditional vandoren that is not a 13 series).
4) The facing is generally too long (an attempt to compensate for the open tip, but not enough).
On the bright side: I bought a CL4 from a major retailer. I do a lot of refacing work and have refaced countless Vandoren mouthpieces (from Eb down to Bass). I figured that, based on my trials of the two designs at ICA, that the facing was just not great but I wanted to see what type of blank they had come up with.
Keeping in mind the measurements of two at ICA:
CL4: 1.06mm tip and 38+ length.
CL5 1.08mm tip and 39 length.
The CL4 that I got brand new was: 1.10mm tip and 40 length. All measurements done with the same tools.
So- as with most vandorens, there is significant variation from mouthpiece to mouthpiece and the Masters is no different.
I put a very vibrant reed on the CL4 and found it to be a bit resistant as well as being very mellow and covered sounding. Since I play\like more "traditional" facings, this was no huge surprise.
I set out with one goal: MAKE THIS MOUTHPIECE PLAY AS WELL AS POSSIBLE by adjusting the facing and tip opening.
I closed the mouthpiece from 1.10mm to 1.00mm and tightened up the facing from 40 to 36.
Result?
1) The sluggish response was fixed. It responded quickly and with ease.
2) Much of the resistance was alleviated and the mouthpiece felt comfortable.
3) The sound had much more "ring" and LIFE to it.
4) There was still enough "lows" or "darkness" in the sound, but the sound was now fuller and more resonant.
Conclusions:
The design of the table (it has some shaping done to the bottom) doesn't make a difference compared to a standard shape. It just looks more interesting.
I couldn't tell any noticeable difference from their "specific bore and chamber" shape compared to their traditional models.
The facings they are using are not very efficient and are far from ideal for an efficient and projecting sound with clarity.
The ligature aspect of the equation is meaningless- every ligature I tried on the mouthpiece fit just fine. The "masters" ligature is not necessary.
The material of the mouthpiece is the same as other vandorens.
OVERALL: With a decent M13-M15 style facing, they play as well as any other good vandoren. At the end of the day, it lacks character and depth that you can get with higher quality materials and better designs.
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Author: KSL
Date: 2013-02-01 20:35
I recently purchased the Vandoren Masters CL4 and have been very pleased. It compares very well with the Vandoren M30. The Masters performs better in the altissimo register than the M 30. The pitch is slightly higher, between 442 and 443 with a 66 barrel on the b-flat. Intonation is excellent. My A clarinet tends to play flat, 440 using a 64 barrel. With the Masters it plays 442 with the same barrel. I use Legere Signature reeds and find the match with the Masters excellent, using a Rovner Mark III ligature. Altissimo notes are almost effortless and overall articulation is very satisfying. I have found that Legere and the Vandoren M 13 Lyre do not work well together, although with cane it's an excellent mpc.
I have also had good luck with Legere reeds on Richard Hawkins and Greg Smith mouthpieces.
For now, I am switching to the Masters CL4, but may go back to the M30.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-02-02 20:15
Funny thing about the CL4 Masters. The ONLY unsolicited compliments I get from my wife are when I play on this mouthpiece. If I ask (while on another mouthpiece) how things are sounding I get the obligatory, "I'm sorry honey, I wasn't listening."
It has a lovely compact sound and WONDERFUL tuning (the opposite of the prevailing 'lower pitch' custom mouthpieces out there). However, on my first go around with this one I thought the maximum volume was a little soft. I'll check this out again soon.
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Gmwinder
Date: 2013-02-03 01:43
I was fortunate enough to test the prototypes on a visit to the factory in 2010. I'm been playing on the CL5 since it was released but what I have found very interesting is how the response is different depending on the ligature. Since the design of the body is different from other models, if you are using a metal lig, you really need to try the M|O lig. I started with the pewter but recently went to the gold plated and it really 'smoothes out' the sound. Being from the UK, I prefer a softer reed so the CL5 with a #3 56 RueLepic works perfect for me. Just my opinion.
Junoreeds.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-02-03 14:52
This isn't the most apt analogy, but for me the difference between the 4 and the 5 is similar to the difference between the M13 and the M13 Lyre. I only use Vandoren nr. 4 reeds (this has been my ONLY constant over the years) so I tend to mouthpieces that match what I'm doing at the time to my reeds. The M13 Lyre and the CL5 have some sort of quality that removes focus for me and makes it just out of control enough to leave it out of contention.
As for the ligature, we've discussed that before. Any of the softer or more conforming ligatures are fine (leather, vinyl, floating rail etc). The designated ligature by Vandoren is probably fine but probably also a bit of a marketing gimmick as well.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-02-03 14:57
Quote:
you really need to try the M|O lig. ...... Just my opinion.
Are you also affiliated with Vandoren?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2013-02-03 15:48
Yes, Ed, he is and he's been notified of the Bboard rules against self-promotion. Interestingly, the Juno reeds site is sparse when it comes to any sort of interesting information about the company, but I see the associated email here points to dansr.com.Looking up Juno at dansr.com didn't bring up any hits.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-02-04 03:36
I tried them at clarinetfest, and I also thought it wasn't anything magical. I tried a ton of mouthpieces and different gear at that place and just jotted down the items that I thought were definitely a cut above the rest for me, and the vandoren masters mpc didn't make the line. It's not a bad mouthpiece, just not worth switching to for me.
Alexi
[edit] FWIW, I was using an M15 and didn't feel it offered anything significantly better than that.
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2013-02-04 03:37)
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