 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-03-11 12:47
At yesterday's C lesson, my instructor brought his "baby", a 1970 Buffet R-13 [normally - for teaching - he uses a plastic Ridnouer (sp)], with him and I was allowed to use it, with my MP, for the thirty minute session. With my limited experience (almost none), immediately I was able to tell the diference between it and my vito. It seemed much more responsive (is that a good description?) and the keys seemed to have a much smoother action (maybe it's because the Buffet has so many more "miles" on it). I'm not sure I could detect any difference in the sound but it sure felt nice in the way it handled. So the question might be, is there always this noticable difference or would only a comparison instrument-for-instrument be the best way to judge?
I shall wait a little longer before I jump into that kind of expense. If I cannot get the basics of this instrument pounded into my head, I don't think I should make the deep plunge for a "professional" instrument. Unless, however, I find a deal I can't refuse.
This could be contageous.
~ jerry
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-03-11 13:09
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!
The slope before your is very slippery, and steep.
You hit on two really important notions;
Expense tends to cover nicer mechanics and play testing. Higher end horns tend to have better materials, and skilled attention to their set up.
As a player, you may have the worst seat in the house to evaluate the sound of a horn. When you take the plunge, use the same reed and mouthpiece.
Do take along a friend with a decent ear, and take their input seriously.
Don't pay retail!
Don't buy from your teacher!
Do consider horns recommended by people that have no financial interest.
I like the Evette Master Model, serial numbers from D24,000 through D27,000.
Good luck in your search!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-03-11 14:59
I think a better, more balanced action is one of the things that distinguishes a high end instrument from a student grade. For example, my Leblanc Symphonie II has a smoother, more responsive mechanical action than the Vito that I keep as a backup or the old Pan American that I used to have.
As in any activity, whether it is hammering nails or playing a clarinet, professional grade equipment is a joy to work with. However, the Vito is a good basic clarinet that will not hamper your development as long as you keep it in good repair (a must for any clarinet). I would suggest waiting a couple of years before upgrading clarinets so that you are better able to play it for evaluation purposes.
Somethings that are important at this stage are a good teacher, a good mouthpiece, good reeds, and the correct reed strength for your stage of development and the mouthpiece that you are using. If you don't yet have a good mouthpiece, I strongly recommend that you get one as soon as possible. Although your preference and needs may change over the years, that is a normal part of development and good mouthpieces are not a huge investment.
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-03-11 17:26
The better the horn and the more you enjoy having it the more you will play. it's like anything else in life. If you enjoy it and it works great then you will use it more.
I find that having a better horn makes me want to play more. If I only had a $50 investment I could back away and do something else. With a good size investment my wife would kill me if I quit.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-03-11 18:14
Jerry, These guys have great answers. I especially liked Anji's comments. Let me give you another look at "the road less travelled." If you just have to have something other than your Vito I just got a "new" horn and I am in love again. Nope, it's not a Buffet, that is above my paygrade, both in expense and in need. I am not a "professional", I am old, retired, and starting again, but I never lost my love for a good instrument. But a Buffet? It would be an ego trip for me, (like owing a cadillac just to drive to the store) and a needless expense. What I needed and wanted was a good, intermediate ,BEAUTIFUL, instrument at less than Buffet/Leblanc prices, but aligned, good wood, play tested, smooth action, etc., and all at a bargain price. I GOT IT!! How? Look in the Sneezy classifieds, there is a real deal hidden there. Look for :
"Dave Spiegelthal" <Spiegelthal.Dave@orbital.com>
He refurbishes and completely restores older clarinets and believe me they come back looking marvelous. I sent him a "Robert Malerne" I bought from eBay. It came back in such a wonderful condition that I can hardly keep my hands off of it, not only to play it, but just to feel and look at it. It is everything I need, and at a fraction of any kind of a Buffet price. Look over his stock and get in touch with him, He offers a weeks trial offer and if you are unhappy he will refund your money. You can't ask for a better deal than that. This may look like a paid commercial ad for Dave, but believe me it is just a heartfelt "thank you" from a grateful customer.
Bob A
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Author: Erica
Date: 2001-03-11 19:16
I too, have experianced Buffet!! I was just at the CA Music Educators Conference on Friday to perform... Anyway a Buffet dealer was there and I got to mess around on an R13 and a Vintage...I was amazed. It'd been a while since I tried out an R13 so I forgot how amazing this instrument is in comparison to my Selmer beginer model. Tone quality was amazing (yes yes i know it's hard to gauge when playing, but my friends noticed it also so i know it must have been significant), the response was amazing as well. I didn't have to struggle to get any of the notes or anything, it was so much easier to play on. I'm in love with these instruments. Hopefully I'll be getting one soon!
Erica
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2001-03-11 19:29
You'll know when its time, if you play some other horns.
I recently got (from a poster above, can I mention names?) a used R-13 for my son. He was on a well adjusted Vito. His tone improved dramatically. Now he gets a tone as good or better than mine now, and is moving up to his teacher's, no way on the Vito. (Thanks again, poster above) His playing improved over all, immediately. The R-13 sounds and plays way better than his old Vito. I suppose he could practice hard for five more years and get this kind of improvement, according to the 'its not the horn theory.' Why fight the instrument?
I was not going to get him a better clarinet yet, and would never have considered it if he did not notice that the instrument seemed inadequate. I had the Vito worked on and switched him to one of my other 'woodys' and had that worked on. Still he was not satisfied, he could hear what he wanted. He would play my Festival and gripe and gripe about his horn. He can tell immediately which clarinet is better, but he griped about the Festival too.
We went to a big music store in a city an hour's drive away. We played a half dozen clarinets (they did not have any used R-13s, but we tried all sorts of student and used horns.) This was quite a trip for us and he DID NOT like any of them well enough. At times he reminded me of a picky eater at dinner, I was beginning to wonder if I could afford his dream clarinet, or even find it. He could tell they were not a big improvement. Fortunately the R-13 we got (thanks again) was well set up and a very nice horn, and he loves it. He has not asked to borrow mine since, maybe I should borrow his...its really nice.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-03-11 20:18
By the way if you do decide to get a better grade instrument, do try all of the four major brands. Make sure that you compare models of the same grade. Don't compare a beginner Selmer to a pro Leblanc and so on. Compare a pro to a pro or an intermediate to an intermediate.
Pick the one you like not what other people like. For example, I find the keys on a Selmer too heavy but other people like their substantial feel. Someone else feels the Leblanc keys are too light while I find them to be highly responsive. Some people love the the way a Buffet plays but I find them stuffy in comparison to my Leblanc. The R-13 isn't the be-all and end-all of clarinets otherwise there wouldn't be any competitors out there and Buffet wouldn't have other pro models either.
A good instrument, even used, is a significant investment. That's why you should pick it yourself although the help of a more knowledgeable clarinetist can keep you from making a big mistake (such as buying a cheap junker of poor construction and that won't tune well just because it has a big rich sound). This is why I suggest playing for a while. You need to have developed a good embouchure and breath support to do a good job of evaluating an instrument. You need to have purchased and become accustomed to a good quality mouthpiece to evaluate a possible purchase. The ones that come with the horns are often poor and frequently mask the instrument's characteristics.
Take your time to upgrade and learn more about what is available out there.
Of course if you are in the position where money is no object then I would support going ahead and getting a pro horn from the beginning.
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-03-11 21:19
Not having played any of the others - and I would not say that I accually *played* the Buffet - I am not ready to make that commitment and unless, as I say, I find a deal I can't refuse, I shall continue to make the best of the Vito. My Vito is in excelent condition and probably just needs breaking in.
If I had the money (other than plastic money) I would probably start with an Concerto or at least an Infinite. I don't know why - just an emotional thing for I've never played either. I would really like to try the LeBlanc LL though.
Anyway, I shouldn't even amke an attempt at this till I can at least play the "scale" into the upper register, don't you think? Like Dee says, maybe another year or so. Hey, buying is 90% emotional anyway - otherwise why would so much be spent on advertising.
Thanks all, for the feedback.
~ jerry
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Author: Karen
Date: 2001-03-12 15:53
Good news to all clarinet players! I have finally discovered that price is not necessarily the measure of an instrument! I have had my Buffet R13 since 1990, when I was a sophomore in college. Prior to that, I played a Selmer Series 9, which I still love. Last year, I got a call from a local dealer who knew that I was interested in a nice A clarinet, but did not want to spend the money for a new Buffet. He had purchased some Leblanc Eternite clarinets, which Leblanc no longer makes, so they were clearing them out. I loved it so much that I bought a Bb, too. I only paid $975.00 each for them--silver plated and all.
I never play my Buffet anymore and I have never sounded better or enjoyed playing more!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-03-12 16:17
I recently sold my Buffet R-13 Prestige to Bob Gardner (above listed participant in this discussion) because I prefer the Leblanc Opus and Leblanc Symphonie VII rosewood. My Prestige was hand-selected at the Paris factory by my clarinet professor and a panel of 5 profs from the International Clarinet Symposium in Paris in the summer of 1996. Then, my prof arranged for the pads to be changed for cork uppers and better lowers and also to have the keys perfectly balanced for the smoothest "ride" on the planet.
So, with the world's most perfect Buffet why would I not be happy? I found the Leblanc Opus easier to play in tune in the altisimo register and much better balanced intonation-wise. Also, it had more powerful projection. It doesn't have the wonderful key action (that cost an extra $300.00 to set up) that the Prestige had, but I sound like I want to sound and Bob is happy with his purchase.
My point: you need to find the clarinet that plays and sounds like you want it to--just because it's a Buffet doesn't mean you'll like it. Every instrument is different. My prof played 19 of the Prestiges before selecting the one I bought.
Leblanc is a wonderful clarinet, and Selmer has some great clarinets on the market today as well. I've even play-tested Yamahas (although I never kept one). The right one is out there for you. Seek and ye shall find.
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 2001-03-13 22:54
I just changed over Christmas break from a Vito plastic clarinet to a Buffet E-11. This silver-plated beatiful sounding instrument has been my dream since beginning HS (I'm a freshman in College and a music ed major) and was the best deal I have ever gotten. $$ isn't always a huge issue. While it definately is a factor in such a purchase, I got mine new w/ warentee off of Ebay for $584--half the normal price for such an instrument. You seem to know what is important--learning the essentials first. Learning on a beginning clarinet is important esp. w/ all the wear that they get in terms of misuse etc because of lack of experience. I encourage you to stick w/ learning the clarinet and to take advantage of those wonderful experiences you'll have in the future of playing professional instruments and hearing the difference.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-03-14 14:20
Pro clarinets are worth the extra $$$, regardless the brand. The advice I hear often is, "Buy the best you can afford and you'll be happier longer." And, like Lindsey said, you can get some really great deals on eBay or even through the Sneezy classifieds. Instruments are a personal thing. Some people love what another hates. The instrument might be perfect in every way (like my Buffet R-13 Prestige I mentioned earlier) and the artist just likes the way another clarinet sounds.
If you have the opportunity to try several different brands and test them in rehearsal and concert situations where the "rubber meets the road," then you'll have a good idea of what you want to buy for keeps.
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