 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: davelesax
Date: 2012-10-25 15:31
Hi, I'm a very successful saxophonist but also play clarinet and teach it. I've developed a real problem with top E over the last 2 year in that it almost always overblows to the altissimo A.
I've adjusted the embouchure, tightened - relaxed - more "e", - less "e" checked that I'm not venting any keys..... running out of ideas.
This doesn't happen with the alternative top E, just the standard one. The problem is that I can't use the alternative one in the grade 8 pieces I'm playing with students...
Help!! please!
many thanks,
Dave
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-10-25 15:49
Open the throat G# key when playing E - this may stop it overblowing to the A.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: srattle
Date: 2012-10-25 15:51
Does this happen at all volumes? Does it only happen when you approach the E from another note? Or also when you play it directly? Does it always happen, or only sometimes?
It could easily be something mechanical, and worth just bring to a tech to ask about.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2012-10-25 16:16
That is correct, we can use the same fingering for either note.
This is called 'voicing'. You need to work on not hitting the A when you want the E.
This is unusual - most folks have trouble getting the high A out.
Keep your tongue position high in the back, and don't overblow, and make sure you're not biting down on the mouthpiece.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: davelesax
Date: 2012-10-25 16:48
Thanks for the advice. I've just bought a new clarinet and it is happening on that too so don't think it is mechanical.
Based on other posts I think I may be overbiting or pushing it out too much in an effort to prevent undertones or it being flat.
I'm still open to advice and am determined to cure it. I'm blowing with a German Band tonight and hope I can get through without too many.
many thanks,
Dave
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-10-25 19:10
Try voicing 'thee' for the top A and 'thaw' for the top E. I had the same problem as you but worked out that this method works well for me, ;-)
Post Edited (2012-10-25 19:11)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2012-10-25 19:53
Dave,
I wouldn't recommend keeping your tongue high as Paul suggests, this will only encourage the over blowing.
What I suggest is try playing middle C and then putting the speaker key on getting the G (12th above) then once that is stable etc take off your 1st finger. All the while keeping the air flow and support the same as if you are constantly playing the "easy" middle C.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2012-10-25 20:12
I've had this problem at various times, and I always feel top E is a note where you need to pay a bit more attention to avoid getting the harmonic you don't want. The top F can have similar issues, but there you have the option of using the long fingering, which is completely stable. Despite a lot of searching, I've never found an equivalent for E, alas. A few things that can make a difference:
* Voicing and not biting has already been commented on, and they go together. I've never had much success thinking of particular vowel sounds, but if you imagine expanding the back of your mouth, then the tongue retracts and the jaw slackens.
* But you can't retract your tongue if you have to articulate E. Then it's even more important not to bite. And especially if it's ppp, where you may naturally tend to squeeze. Rapid ppp tonguing on E is about my least favourite thing to be asked to play.
* The extent of any such problems is influenced by the mouthpiece. A more open tip makes it harder to get top A, which is then good news for a stable E.
* Half-holeing with the L index finger makes E more stable - although it goes flat if you overdo it.
* Completely covering the L index hole and compensating with the throat G# key has been mentioned. This is on the sharp side, however, so you need to shade all the RH fingerholes if you want to use it in pp. Also, it tends to be more strident in tone. It becomes softer if you add the pinky E/B key.
* As you said, these alternative fingerings are all very well, but you often need to use the standard fingering - and it's an admission of defeat to avoid it, in any case. In the end, all this stuff about voicing etc. has to happen automatically, which means learning how it feels to do it right (and to do it wrong). One thing that's struck me is that, if there's going to be a problem, it will be on certain intervals. Slurring up a 5th from A to E always feels safe, but a 6th from G to E is more dangerous. A lot of practice comparing the feel of how you approach the E in these different cases can help embed the feeling of a "good" E. It also helps to deliberately play top A and get familiar with the feeling of what you have to do to get down to E.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-10-26 00:22
I agree that placing the tongue to high, especially in front, will cause the problem not help solve it. BUT, everyone is different depending on the size and thickness of your tongue. If you can play D to E and the E comes out OK then it's a problem with how you start the note. If that's the case I suggest you start from the D or C-D and once you play the E sustain it and concerntrate how you're placing your tongue and how your throat feels. After a while you need to "remember" the feeling and copy it. If playing the D or E doesn't work then try coming down from the G-F-E. Another way I've used is having the student play the high A and voice down to the E and go back and forth so you can feel what you have to do differently to voice either note. It is definetly a voicing problem so it has to be with your tongue and or throat position as long as you're not pinching your embouchure, there's not much left to blame. I've had many students with this problem over the years and that's how I helped them solve it and I've always been succeful over time.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2012-10-26 15:57
I do the same thing, but it's the D above the staff that I tend to overblow (especially when I approach it from top line F). My teacher tells me to think lower when I voice it. Something that also helps is that when I go over that upper break into the altissimo, I point my head down a little bit (maybe it helps me think lower, I'm not exactly sure why it works). Using an air attack rather than tonguing the note can help find the voicing, too. Once you have it voiced, try adding the tongue.
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Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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