 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: clarinetfan97
Date: 2012-08-01 07:13
I wanna memorize Saint-Saen sonata 1st and 2nd movement for state solo and ensemble, but i find it hard to memorize music. Can you give me some hints/ways to make memorizing music easier.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nessie1
Date: 2012-08-01 11:55
Memorising is a skill in itself. You can't just think you know it, start away and hope that it will all fall into place. You can guarantee that you will have a blockage.
I think it is important to memorise patterns - the second movement of the Saint-Saens is good for this because a lot of it is broken chords and scales. Also work on remembering where the phrases start, particularly where you have had a couple of bars rest. For instance in the first movement of the Saint-Saens what note does the central section start on where there is a noticeable change of mood?
In the second movement focus on which notes the swinging octaves are.
Another thing about memeorising is you need to really have the piece under your fingers with the music before you start trying to memorise and also keep returning to the music during the process or all sorts of inaccuracies can creep in.
Hope this helps - Good Luck
Vanessa.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-08-01 13:11
I think that if you can remember the tune and you are sufficiently familiar with your instrument that you can find a note without having to think about where it is, then memorisation is fairly easy. Some might say that this is just "playing by ear" and dismiss it, but as long as you have the written music firmly under your fingers and you refer back to it to maintain accuracy then there is no problem with the method.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-01 13:25
Play through until you have the notes well in your fingers. Then put the piano score on the stand and read the bass line while letting your fingers play the solo line. Then do it following the inner lines.
This lets you understand what's going on under the solo line. Recognizing the harmony decreases the number of possible notes you can play, because only the harmonic notes will fit. It's also essential for performing the piece as a whole, rather than just playing your own line.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2012-08-01 15:23
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Recognizing the harmony decreases the number of possible notes
> you can play, because only the harmonic notes will fit.
I haven't looked at the Saint-Saens to conform whether or not this is true for the Sonata, but I don't know that it's so true generally that it's a universally useful tool for memorizing any piece of music.
I agree with your points about the importance knowing the accompaniment and how the solo part interacts with it generally, but there are a lot of non-harmonic notes in most of the music we play, even back to the 18th century.
Or have I misunderstood your point about this?
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-08-01 20:55
Whats really remarkable are some of the very gifted conductors that can memorize complete scores. Their minds are so sharp.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-08-01 20:59
A lot of pieces can be memorized. For me none of them are, but the orchestra solo's are sort of a must for me.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-08-02 22:28)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JHowell
Date: 2012-08-01 21:36
Have you really learned it so that you can play it without mistakes or stumbles? How many times have you played it in practice? I find that many of my students who complain of difficulty memorizing actually have difficulty practicing. For me, the first element of memorization is command, the second is repetition. It's no use trying to play without music if you're making mistakes or not sure what's next; you'll just engrave uncertainty and hesitation. Once it's really solid, I'd be surprised if it's not memorized after you've played it 20 or 30 times. But if it takes 50, it takes 50. Patience and diligence will be rewarded with confidence.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-01 21:52
Karl -
At least in pre-20th-century music, non-harmonic notes are also governed by their relation to the harmony. An appoggiatura or suspension is recognizable as such by its relation to the resolution. Passing tones connect notes within the harmony.
For example, in the opening phrase of the Saint-Saens Sonata, the third note (G) is an appoggiatura that resolves to the fourth note (F). One of the most basic musicianship skills is to recognize this and to decrescendo from the third to the fourth note.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2012-08-01 22:41
I understand that, and you're right, of course, but I'm not sure how certain it is that a high school student would be that musically aware. Suspensions and appogiaturas are not necessarily recognizable at all by many such students (whether they should be or not). I only meant to point out that it seemed over-simplified to say that because the harmony implied by a chord spelled C-E-G is in the accompaniment, the melody must be either C, E or G ("only the harmonic notes will fit"). And of course, it's even less reliable a technique in a great deal of 20th century music. But then, I'm not sure how many high school students would be capable of playing one line while following and *hearing* another.
I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with your approach, only that it may be too sophisticated for many high school students who must learn and, often, memorize solos for contests.
Your suggestion is cetainly useful. I only meant to question its appropriateness for a student like the OP (I don't know Brendan at all, but other 13-year-olds may lack the needed training). Your experience may well be different
Karl
Post Edited (2012-08-01 22:43)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JHowell
Date: 2012-08-02 00:06
I agree with Kari. I memorized several concerti for young artist contests before I learned what an appogiatura was, or a passing tone. Senior in high school, as I recall, when I took theory at the community college. I listened to records a lot -- sometimes would set the tonearm (this will date me) to repeat the concerto all night while I slept. And I played the pieces over and over. Just like learning speeches or poems for English class, it takes time. Your memory is like a muscle, the more you memorize things better you'll get, but you have to exercise.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-02 13:11
Karl -
I teach musical awareness from the beginning. As soon as a student can play the low register, I play the "cat" theme from Peter and the Wolf and have them imitate me, one phrase at a time. Then I say "OK, now let's make a little music" and point out the slurred appoggiaturas at the end. I say that when you see things like this, you lean on the first note and come away to the second.
I don't teach music theory at this point -- just have the student look for a downward slur on an accented beat and learn by hearing and doing it.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-08-02 13:56
Have you tried taking a blank piece of manuscript paper, and re-writing the piece yourself from memory? Maybe not the whole piece at first, maybe just 8 measures. Then you can compare with the original piece, and see what you may have missed. I would use this along with the suggestions above.
Drew S.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-02 15:03
Play it and play it and play it... etc etc. Play it so much is't boring. Play it so much that you can improvise if you want. Play it so much that you can pick up in parts of the piece and continue.
I still play a piece I memorized on the accordion as a young boy back in 1964. I play by ear a lot and even though I just started learning to pay the clarinet, I can play Battle Hymn of the Republic, Halls of Montezuma, and many Christmas songs just from hearing the notes. I have bout 45 mintues practice (total) on the clarinet. I just have not learned the notes on it yet If I can hear it, or hum it, I can play it.
Just lots and lots of practice on the same piece over and over and over and over...
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kimber
Date: 2012-08-02 16:14
I can't just sit and play the music and memorize it. But...if I spend a week with it on the ipod/headphones/car radio...I can usually start to hum/sing most of the passages within a day or two and once it is in my head, 'learning the notes' falls into place without much difficulty. I have found that it ends up with a more expressive/emotional performance as well as I have 'felt' the music, not just learned it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2012-08-02 16:14
JHowell wrote: >I find that many of my students who complain of difficulty memorizing actually have difficulty practicing. For me, the first element of memorization is command, the second is repetition. It's no use trying to play without music if you're making mistakes or not sure what's next;<
Definitely, although there is a spectrum here of how people actually memorize. Those who use their ear extensively to learn a piece of music in the first place tend to do more "memorizing" as they go along. I started piano four years before starting to learn the clarinet, and for me, fluency with a piece and memory tended to develop together.
One thing I would mention is that you must practice starting at different spots in the piece as you work on memory. Any section that poses memory problems should be approached from a memory-secure point before the difficult stretch. This also gives you several spots to pick up with the accompaniment if one does have a memory glitch.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-08-02 19:40
My own process is simple: Listen. Listen Listen Listen Listen Listen.
Listen to the music coming out of your horn. Remember what areas of the piece remind you of things and events. Listen to recordings over and over again. While you are walking, though the tempo might be kind of off, hear the melodies with each step you take. Sing it to yourself as much as possible. Get to the point where you are hearing the blasted piece in your sleep.
If you listen to the music enough externally, you will be able to hear it internally. If the music is inside of you, then you can play it in whatever circumstance may arise.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Neil
Date: 2012-08-04 01:24
One trick that may help you is to start your memorization from the end, i.e., memorize the last few bars, then a few bars preceding, etc. It seems to make it easier as you play the section you're trying to memorize and go right into what you've already memorized.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
