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 How to find the problem
Author: Morrigan 
Date:   2012-06-17 08:09

Hi all

I've not posted in a really long time!

I've got a very technical piece I'm working on, lots of notes basically. There's a bar that always trips me up and I can't get to the bottom of what the problem is. Most of the time you can easily figure out that the problem is and get to the bottom of it but this bit gets me every time and working on it in every way I know how yields no results!

Any suggestions???



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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2012-06-17 09:59

Post the bar.

Tony

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2012-06-17 10:14

I just recently also had a problem that I really wasn't sure how to solve, but after a while I did manage to solve it!

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2012-06-17 12:23

If the "go slowly,"....."two note at a time,"......or "think dynamic" doesn't help, then, for me, the problem is just BEFORE or AFTER what you think the problem is.


...............Paul Aviles



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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: Tobin 
Date:   2012-06-17 12:39

Have your recorded yourself?

I'm certain a lot of good advice will come as the circumstances are clearer, but in general I would add that if you can't perceive what/why the problem is -- it's because you're going faster than your brain is prepared to go.

James

Gnothi Seauton

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: davyd 
Date:   2012-06-17 13:17

Are you absolutely sure there is the proper amount of notes in the bar? A dumb thing to ask perhaps, but I've seen it trip people up; trying to play a 4/4 bar that had only 15 semiquavers was problematic (a semiquaver rest was missing).

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: JHowell 
Date:   2012-06-17 13:57

Agreed, post the bar. Then you'll get more specific suggestions. Another technique to add to the ones already mentioned is reverse chaining. Start at the end and add notes one or two at the time. Don't repeat mistakes. Work on your imagination. If you can hear it in your head, you can do it. Maybe not instantly, but you can do it.

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: Ken Shaw 2017
Date:   2012-06-17 15:01

Welcome back Morrigan.

There have been a number of good threads on isolating and solving technical problems. The method is to practice dead slow. Set your metronome to 40 and play one note per click, visualizing each change before you play it. This "engraves" the proper movements into your muscle memory and works just as effectively at slow tempo as at fast.

Never practice faster than perfect. Letting yourself make mistakes just teaches your fingers how to make mistakes.

Read http://www.joearmstrong.info/GILLET21rtf.htm. There's a lot to absorb, but it summarizes the wisdom of a great player and teacher. In particular, play the passage and stop on the note before the difficult change. Hold that note, visualize the next (difficult) change and then go on.

Other good material is at:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=357663&t=357584
http://www.osbornmusic.com/Technique1.pdf
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=357663&t=357584
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=158256&t=158204
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=217903&t=217857
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=298342&t=82087

Ken Shaw

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: William 
Date:   2012-06-17 16:03

Most often it's simply a case of 'learning' the notes. Unless you can play every note from memory correctly (every time), you really hav'nt *learned* them.

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: Tony F 
Date:   2012-06-17 16:04

When I trip over a bar I sometimes find it useful to draw out the bar on a sheet of paper. Draw 2 heavy vertical lines with the whole width of the page between them. These are the beginning and end of the bar. Then, depending on the time signature, draw lighter vertical lines to mark the note positions, and then vertical half lines to mark half notes. Carry on to quarter and eighth notes, or as far as is necessary.
Then write in the notes of the bar in their appropriate place.

You can then work through the bar until it is fixed in your head. You may find it useful to put the notes on the same leger-line, to get the timing without having to worry about the actual note. When you've got the timing, sort out the notes. Sometimes the problem is in the timing between one bar and the next, so if this is the case draw up 2 or 3 bars together.

Tony F.

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2012-06-17 16:07

How many silly puns about musicians and bars would this thread be able to endure? [tongue]

--
Ben

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: cigleris 
Date:   2012-06-17 16:50

I'd like the see the actual problem bar

Peter Cigleris

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: ohsuzan 
Date:   2012-06-17 20:37

Another simple, but effective, technique is to vocalize ("sing") the problem area. Or maybe you already tried that?

Susan

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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: Morrigan 
Date:   2012-06-19 19:37

Here it is. Year Of The Dragon 3rd mvt, bars 9 and 10.



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 Re: How to find the problem
Author: Morrigan 
Date:   2012-06-19 19:38

OK that didn't work...



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