 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-10-29 02:02
I recently played this for a concert. And I've noticed it with other orchestras as well. The first time the Eb clarinet comes in with the rest of the melody, the notes are written as a dissonant 2nd to the rest of the melody. Most orchestra's including the one I played it, corrected these notes by transposing it so it is in unison with everyone else. My question is, is it supposed to be dissonant as written? Or was it a mistake written into the part? Thanks.
Post Edited (2011-10-29 02:14)
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Author: grenadilla428
Date: 2011-10-29 02:11
We treated it as a mistake, and I transposed. Great facial expressions from the flutes during the first reading, though!
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Author: davyd
Date: 2011-10-29 02:28
Maybe the part is supposed to be played on the D clarinet, with that designation missing? Or is it off by a half step in the other direction?
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-10-29 03:48
That's what I had guessed cause it is written like it's supposed to be for D clarinet being half a step lower. Maybe they just forgot to mark it in the part. Hmm..
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-10-29 04:16
lived in Mexico for 5 years and played the piece many times with several conductors........ it was always transposed to unison.
....as for it being written to be dissonant in a minor 2nd as an intentional device, or a simple error, we cannot "say" with certitude. But can "morally" surmise it was an editorial error: it doesn't re-occur in another voice , or section, within the composition. Of course, later in the piece when you double the muted trumpets, whom will climb in pitch if care is not taken, you'll end up with minor 2nds again ;-)
........but alas. The piece was originally composed for chamber orchestra and then later adapted for the a full orchestra. There are no minor 2nds in the original. It IS devilishly hard in its' original form. As one of my friends aptly commented after a performance of the original setting: "Man, that sure leaves you hanging out there like a flaccid $%^&*."
......but then again, knowing some of the history of Revueltas' life (the un-published portions), and the double meaning behind Sensemaya (perhaps if you *ahem* may have inadvertently experienced it first hand) you may wonder.
Yet, that side of the experience should probably not be discussed in this public forum.
-Jason (or Ha-son, Yay-son, carnal, cabron, or any of the other names I acquired during my tenure down south)
Post Edited (2011-10-29 04:26)
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-10-29 07:03
Thanks for clearing that up Buster. It must have been a editing error. 'Cause I have never heard any recordings of orchestras playing it dissonant.
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2011-10-29 22:11
I disagree. Revueltas never used a D clarinet in any other piece. Of course he was either drunk, hungover, or drying out when he wrote most of his music so there might be a mistake, but I always play the part as written. If you don't blast it out and try to blend with the other instruments it can sound very spooky and mysterious.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-10-30 01:10
(perdoname, pero no puedo teclar con acentos en mi compu....)
Elmo, has tocado la version por orchestra de camera? No existe este desacuerdo entre las voces.
Y si, Revueltas fue un pinche borracho, pero no sabemos si escribio el la edicion publica. Posiblmente un redactor copio cada parte de el manuscrito original para publicar.
Post Edited (2011-10-30 05:39)
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Author: claricabron
Date: 2011-10-31 04:56
Jason, is good to know you are still alive haha. You should visit mazatlan, how have you been ?
Sergio
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Author: fantasmacantos
Date: 2011-10-31 19:36
Take a look:
http://www.fororevueltas.unam.mx/
Try to contact Maestro Jose Luis Castillo and oboist-musicologist Roberto Kolb, they did a very complete research on Revueltas music and published a critic edition.
I understand it is a disonance.
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2011-11-01 00:32
Unfortunately I haven't played the chamber version. But if the dissonance is a copyist's mistake, wouldn't the entire Eb part be wrong-not just a small portion? Also, Revueltas conducted the premiere performance. Surely he would have corrected such a glaring mistake before he sent the score to Southern Music for publication. This is what he did for Homenaje a Garcia Lorca around this time. He kept a score with many discrepancies in Mexico (which is now being billed as the original version) and sent a different corrected score to the publisher.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-01 03:12
Elmo,
The full orchestral version I have played was a hand written version that I assumed was extracted from his manuscript; I have never seen the Schirmer publication (not listed under Southern per the UNAM web-site.)
Not having seen the Schirmer version, I cannot speak of it. If it were a mis-transposition, it would not be unheard of. Kalmus is replete with errors (most extreme being the Eb part for Daphnis y Chloe.) and Schirmer could be suffering the same fate..... or perhaps it could be correct.
Truth be told, we cannot say for sure as I am unaware of a recording done under Revueltas' baton. (Unlike, for instance, Stravinsky's Firebird Suite re. the famous flute/clarinet argument of "those 2 measures" in the Varation. .....and even then it is still argued about.)
Leave it up to the conductor because surely they would never lead us astray ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
Sergio,
Canada?
-Jason
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