 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dtiegs
Date: 2011-09-17 14:10
Short question: I went to the music store hoping to find a book, but instead we were given a chance to look at their professional level clarinets. I was only allowed to feel the key works since I didn't bring along my mouthpiece. So i felt both the R13's one silver plate the other nickle, when the salesman said: the silver should feel more comfortable. And it did. I am just questioning is this really true? or was it just a placebo to make it feel more welcoming?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-09-17 14:33
Silver has more grip to it compared to nickel which some people find too slippery under the fingers.
Similarly when working on silver or nickel plated keys - silver is more 'grabby' when filing or cutting (similar to copper) whereas nickel is a much harder metal and files will skate across it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jicaino
Date: 2011-09-17 14:39
Also, and especially with Buffet silver plating being so pitting corrosion prone, Nickel is a way more lasting and easy to maintain choice. I've seen R13's that you would need to replace pretty much every key and many many posts due to how the substrate (base metal) deteriorated when silver plate failed. And with Buffet plating, it's not a matter of "if" but of "when".
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-09-17 16:54
And then, when nickel tarnishes, it tarnishes badly. Silver tarnishes as well but that is easily corrected, compared to nickel which takes a ton of elbow grease.
Interesting fact - here in Switzerland nearly all instruments sold are silver plated. Nickel is reserved to bottom feeder market instruments. May be a culturally inherited preference, may be a fashion thing, I don't know.
--
Ben
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2011-09-17 17:08
Why not chrome, as was my first clarinet, 75 years ago?
richard smith
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Author: marcia
Date: 2011-09-17 17:26
>Also, and especially with Buffet silver plating being so pitting corrosion >prone, Nickel is a way more lasting and easy to maintain choice. I've seen >R13's that you would need to replace pretty much every key and many >many posts due to how the substrate (base metal) deteriorated when >silver plate failed. And with Buffet plating, it's not a matter of "if" but >of "when".
My experience has been quite different. About 10 years ago I purchased a new Buffet R13 "Bb". After about 6 months the nickel plating was starting to wear off. In contrast, my R13 "A", which was several years old by then, had the original silver plating which was pristine. I have since had the "Bb" silver plated and it is still pristine.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2011-09-17 18:30
My experience is similar to Marcia - silver plating holds up better among my students' R13's. Nickel is cheaper, so many students get the nickel plated ones - and it quickly (within a few months in some cases) starts to wear through.
My 40 year old R13, however, is Nickel, and the plating on it has held up quite well. Something changed at the Buffet factory 15 years ago or thereabouts - the plating is not holding up like it did on older instruments. Shame on the Buffet folks - quality continues to deteriorate.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-09-17 19:40
rtmyth wrote:
> Why not chrome, as was my first clarinet, 75 years ago?
>
The two primary reasons why chrome plating isn't as popular are the fact that it involves and extra step in the plating process (parts are typically nickel plated before entering the chromium tank) and that chrome plating leaves a non-uniform coating thickness which makes it a poor choice for small precision parts like clarinet keys.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-09-17 23:05
Chrome plate is also excessively slippery.
By far the best tactile feel of any finish in my opinion is the virgin unplated but high quality nickel siver.
This material combines just the right amount of grip whilst still allowing easy finger sliding when needed.
The makers always knew this but were persuaded by their marketing departments to provide a "prettier" finish.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-09-17 23:12
I agree with Norman. I prefer unplated nickel silver to any type of plated key. It's unfortunate that this option is no longer offered on new clarinets.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-09-17 23:29
Attachment: 001.JPG (173k)
The best thing about unplated keywork is that any scratches, silver soldering work or alterations carried out on them can be tidied easily up by filing, papering up and polishing without the worry of plating wear or the hassle of having to get the keys sent away to be replated afterwards.
Unless the unplated keywork is looking pretty bad due to neglect, I prefer to clean up unplated keys to remove grime but not polish them to a bright finish as the aged patina does look good.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-09-17 23:55
Older nickel-platedR13models had much thicker plating that current ones. The change is due to a change in the manufacturing process, due to health issues for the workers. Nickel can be quite toxic with long-term exposure, so mostly Chinese Clarinets seem to have the old style nickel plating these days. They seem to have much looser regulations regarding worker safety issues.
Personally, I prefer the feel of the silver-plated keys on my Leblanc/Backun Symphonie to the slicker feel I got with my 1971 R13 or my 2008 Ridenour Lyrique.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-09-18 21:01
The tactile feel make a BIG difference if you are particular (one way or the other) about SLIDING. That is mainly the pinky keys on the right and the left. Those who slide MORE (less than alternating side to side that is) prefer nickel or even gold plating. There is the story (reliably told) that Richard Stoltzman wore through his nickel plating regularly and had to have the key re-plated with nickel (insisting on nickel !!!!). He is NOT a silver fan but I don't know if he had even given gold a go.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-09-18 22:24
For "sliders" I'd recommend to have rollers (as with saxes or German-system clarinets) put on the pinky keys instead of wearing through the plating every so often.
--
Ben
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-09-18 22:38
Well, there is the sliding DOWN to the keys on the right and the occasional "slide" from left C# up to the G# key - no possible rollers for those. I'm just sayin' sliding is easier on a more slippery surface.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-09-18 22:47
I did some idle googling around that subject - seems like we clarinetists are quite the conservative folks, else we might see those pinky keys rearranged in something more resembling a four-way rocker key or a sax table.
The problem with these "novelties" is that it makes the transition from one instrument to the other (eg indoors treasure vs outdoors beater) unnecessarily difficult. (and no, no discussion about the various issues of indoors vs outdoors usage in this thread, please)
On the slipperiness of nickel vs silver - I didn't notice all that big a difference. Sure, my nickel keys are mostly quite worn (ah, the charm of 2nd, 3rd, n-th hand instruments), so maybe a shiny new instrument may behave differently, at least with my body chemistry.
--
Ben
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