 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-06-16 13:50
Hi
Recently, when playing, my reeds have an annoying tendancy to stick to the mouthpiece, making it impossible to play. This has never happened until about 2 months ago, and has never occured in the previous ~10 years, and means that I cant actually finish any piece of music that has any staccato notes in it at all.
I have changed reeds, changed strngths i.e tried everything from a vandoren 4 down to a vandoren 2, and even tried some rico reeds. I have also cleaned out my mouthpiece fully, and it still happens.
Any help is appreciated, as it is a bit embarrasing when I can't even complete the warm up scale for orchestra!
Thanks
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-06-16 14:41
I did try shoving more mouthpiece in, but it had no effect other than no notes being playable if they needed the octave key.
I do not think my mouthpiece has been warped - I have 2 identical ones (Yamaha 4CMs, the ones that come with CSVs, and I don't need to change mouthpiece before anyone suggests, as I have gone through the process twice, once when I got My E13, and when I got my CSV, and after trying 7-8 mpieces both times, it was clear that the 4CM was the best), an old one that has major tooth damage to it, which made me buy a second one when I got my new clarinet, but the faces are absolutley identical.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2011-06-16 14:47
You mentioned cleaning the mouthpiece. I think it's helpful to take the reed off and rinse both the reed and the mouthpiece after every practice session, then leave the reed off the mouthpiece except when you're using them. If you're already doing that, then maybe take a look at whatever you're using to dry the reed and mouthpiece. If the rag doesn't go through the wash now and then, maybe something sticky is growing on the rag and transferring to the equipment.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-06-16 14:55
Would you consider trying a synthetic reed (Legere, Forestone, etc.)?
Not that I mean this as a plug or condemnation of synthetics, but their water absorption rates, if existant at all, are often slower than that of cane: which may be bending towards your mouthpiece due to water saturation???
...so, nothing has changed? Dental work? The climate you live in? Recent changes to your setup? even stresses in your life that have caused you to bight harder unconscientiously (I ask b/c of the teeth marks)? anything?
I wish you luck with getting this issue being you. : - )
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-06-16 15:10
I've got to go back to your original post and ask you to describe more fully what's actually happening. It sounds like you're putting the mouthpiece into your mouth, forming your normal embouchure and starting to play but the reed suddenly closes against the mouthpiece and simply never springs back. From your post, Some of the responses seem to assume that even when you take the mouthpiece out of your mouth, the reed is still stuck to the rails. But I'm having real problems visualizing this or understanding how a reed with any spring in it would stick to anything that could reasonably be on the its back or on the mouthpiece. So I'm wondering if the above description is what you meant.
If the reed is returning to a normal position when you stop playing, the most likely answer is that the pressure you're putting on the reed when you play is closing it against the mouthpiece. This would occur either because you're biting too hard or because the reeds you're using are too soft for the mouthpiece.
Karl
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-06-16 21:33
kdk- yes, you are correct in that the reed does indeed return to normal after being removed from my mouth. I doubt the reeds are too soft, as I normally use 3.5 or 4 strengths.
ThatPerfectReed- In referral to teeth marks, I have always 'bitten' too hard on mouthpieces, and have tried to loosten it, but to no avail. Nothing has changed, no dental work, climate- its England, its gonna be random.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-06-16 22:55
Something in your approach or in your equipment must have changed, even though you may not have noticed or been aware of it if the reed is closing when you play suddenly after 10 years' playing. As I suggested in my other reply, you close a reed when you apply more pressure against it than it can resist. Usually, that's because the reed is too soft for the mouthpiece (shouldn't be the case, at least to the extreme you're describing, with a #4) or you're biting too hard. Moving from #4 down to #2, if the #4s were really comfortable, should have made the problem worse.
I think your best chance for help would be to find someone local who is knowledgeable and can listen to you, watch what you're doing and maybe try your setup him/herself to try to figure out what's going on.
When you write "and I don't need to change mouthpiece before anyone suggests, as I have gone through the process twice," you don't say what mouthpieces you've tried in your previous rounds of mouthpiece swapping or what reeds you tried with them or what the result was.
It's unlikely that "the faces are absolutely identical" on your two 4CMs. You wouldn't see any differences by eye. Facing and internal dimensions need to be measured with tools and gauges designed for the purpose, and production tolerances aren't close enough to guarantee that any two mouthpieces of the same model and nominal facing measurements are really exact duplicates. Have you tried the newer one to make sure it doesn't improve things for you?
When you write "I have always 'bitten' too hard on mouthpieces, and have tried to loosten it, but to no avail," it may well indicate that the biting is the primary problem and that loosening the bite needs to be approached in a different way from the ones you've tried unsuccessfully. Again, a skilled teacher watching and listening in person would have the best shot at suggesting adjustments in your embouchure, breathing or anything else that could be causing your need to bite.
It's also possible, if you haven't had anyone check over your instrument, that something's leaking seriously enough to cause a stoppage of response that might feel like the reed is closing when it's really not the reed at all.
Just a few suggestions - I'm sure there will be other good ones as well.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-06-16 23:07
There is no such thing as "biting too hard," because
THERE SHOULD BE NOOOOOOOO BITING AT ALL !!!!!!!
It is the use of the muscles surrounding the mouthpiece (lower lip, upper lip, cheek muscles too!) that provides the platform and platform ONLY for the reed/mouthpiece to fit into.
Also, the best way to find the exact point at which to place the reed/mouthpiece into your mouthpiece is to continually play an open "G" starting from a point closest to the tip of the mouthpiece and then continually add more mouthpiece into your mouth until you get a great big SQUAWK. Back off just a bit from that point (that is closer to the tip where you started) and THAT is the fulcrum point for you to use. If you are at this ideal spot for you, the reed and the mouthpiece I would assert that it would be virtually impossible for you to put enough jaw pressure on the reed to close it down (of course I have been wrong before........ once or twice).
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2011-06-17 00:04
Kal Opperman, Keith Stein, Tom Ridenour--all proponents if the idea that all when else fails, and problem solving isn't so clear, consider trying for a while, if possible, double lip embouchure, and see what happens. Even if only for a short time.
That ought to cure you of your biting "problems" and quick--irrespective of whether or not that's the proximate or contributary cause of your issue--which logic would suggest it is not--as you've been biting for years w/o this reed pinching stuff you describe. But it may still be worth a try. Suffice it to say, your upper lip has nerves your mouthpiece's top lacks, that will make it impossible for you to bite too hard, unless you "want to see stars."
I get it...you want to solve this issue of your clarinet "locking up" despite the potential of the problem being multi-factorial (or not), and at best only an educated guess from knowledgeable and well intentioned suggestors, otherwise working blind here, going only by the observations you notice and report, which themselves may only be a subset of all the issues that exist. Kal's suggestion for a competant "on the scene obsever" is clearly a sound one (no pun intended).
Loliver, just as I suspect you don't, "when calling a plumber with a pipe problem, want to hear him tell you that you also need electrical work," I respect that you don't want to hear people talking here about correcting problems in your playing that you, of all people, know best regarding such problem's likelihood to be contributory to the reed problem you mention.
That said, the instrument is, paradoxically, the worse place to take out, well.... stress with playing the instrument, like the kind that manifests in stiff embouchures or fingers.
Stated another way, firm but non-vice grip embouchure (the kind that doesn't produce teeth marks) and attentive, but at ease fingers and mind produces better players. Without such attentive relaxation, 1/2 the progress will take twice the work.
You may very well know this. Try double lip, thinner reeds if necessary, and slowing down the metronome to see if you can isolate exactly when this problem is happening in phrases, and if it is at all patternistic. You may be doing something you don't even realize your doing, unless you play slow.
All the best wishes on getting past this issue.
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