 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bc
Date: 2011-04-14 16:26
I have been playing the bass clarinet for about 11 years. I do not play any other clarinets. I have a good instrument and mouthpiece, and for the most part, my technique is pretty solid. However, I am absolutely terrible at tonguing.
I can't get a note to start cleanly when I want it to- there is either some "fluff" at the beginning or a light slap. I have worked with several teachers on the issue, but I still don't really understand what I'm doing wrong or what I can do to correct it.
During the summer, I would like to study articulation (and nothing else) with a good teacher via Skype. I am looking for someone who can discuss the mechanics of tongue position and breath support and diagnose what I'm doing wrong by hearing it. This will be a difficult process as I have a decade of bad habits plus a lot of unsuccessful experimentation to work though. I am willing to spend as much time as it takes to correct the issue and would have no problem spending more than an hour a day on it, if I only knew what to spend that time on.
If you think you can help, or have a suggestion of who I should contact, please help.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-14 17:31
Two thoughts - not really responsive to your request, but maybe relevant in some way.
(1) Skype may give a teacher a handle on the sound that's coming out, but it gives him/her no idea of how responsive your setup is. A great deal of the time "fluff" and other unwanted noises are the result of combining unresponsive reeds with the tactics used to overcome their unresponsiveness. Have your previous teachers been skilled bass players (who knew what the equipment should feel like) or clarinetists who were doing the best they could with an instrument they weren't themselves completely comfortable with?
(2) "Mechanics" can often get in the way of clean technique. The tongue's function in simplest terms is to stop the reed from vibrating until the time for a note (either the first or the next) to begin, then release the reed so it can begin vibrating. Good articulation is always based on good tone-producing technique and as simple (and light) an approach as possible to stopping the reed for separation. It's possible that you've become so involved in trying to find the right "mechanics" that you've distorted things, working too hard and getting the way of clean attacks by trying to do and control too much.
FWIW
Karl
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Author: Leanne E.
Date: 2011-04-14 18:55
I'm seconding kdk here. I teach lessons over Skype. It's a great tool, but the technology is limited in it's ability to send enough information for a teacher to really help fine tune technique. I use it more to be a second set of ears, and critically listen to a student's playing. And that's most of tutoring, but I don't think I would feel comfortable fine tuning articulation online.
I have to recommend that you find a bass clarinet tutor. I am one, and I know my approach is different than some of my soprano tutor friends. The instruments are both single reed and they have the same fingerings, but past that, the bass clarinet is a completely different animal.
Let me tell you what I'm working on with articulation:
Only use the very tip of the tongue. This isn't an ice cream cone, it's a clarinet reed. You just need to stop the reed from vibrating. I'm guilty too, I get over zealous (especially on soprano, gosh, that thing is tiny!). But try to think of the mechanics of how a reed works, perhaps even visualizing it will help you. It's done worlds for me. Get your ligature nice and loose too. See if that helps any.
Post some of the stuff you've tried! There are so many experienced clarinet/bass clarinet players on here, you can't go wrong.
And if you are still convinced you want to Skype, let me know. I'd be happy to give it a shot, see what I can and can't do for you. (Although, you're in the right place to find a better tutor than me!)
Good luck!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-04-15 00:21
Isn't there someone in your area that can help you? Even if you have to travel a few hours for lessons. There's nothing like a teacher in the room. Meanwhile, check out my website for the articles on articulation. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-04-15 00:38
This might be useful. I use a clarinet silencer from jazzlab for mouthpiece exercises. It is useful for practicing articulation and tongueing but there isn't one for bass clarinet. They are mainly designed for saxophone but there is a Bb soprano clarinet model. I leave it in the car and practice several times throughout the day and have found it to be useful.
The link wasn't working for me just a few moments ago but the youtube link will.
http://www.jazzlab.com/en/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g74t3kpxT54
Good luck.
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Author: bc
Date: 2011-04-27 06:06
Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. This semester has been busy and I knew it would take me awhile to get to everyone’s reply.
kdk:
1. I have never studied with an actual bass clarinetist, as I have never lived near one. I can’t drive, which makes travel difficult. I’m not sure if my setup is responsive or not. I am using a Grabner LB model with Gonzalez 3.25 reeds on a Selmer Privilege bass clarinet. I am unable to play on strength 3.5-4 as Walter suggests for this mouthpiece (I firmly believe that it should not hurt to play the clarinet, and if I go harder, it hurts). This is top-of-the-line gear and should be “good enough to learn on”.
On a side note, I had the opportunity to borrow a Pomerico Jazz* mouthpiece for some time. I found articulation much easier (though still with the same basic problems) and much preferred the sound and feel, but didn’t have the chops to play on it for more than 15-20 minutes. I’ve come to the conclusion that it was too open for me and the Grabner may be too close, and am looking into buying something in between. I am dragging my feet on this because I hate trying new mouthpieces.
2. That is exactly my problem: I’ve put so much time and effort into solving the problem I’ve actually made it worse. Sometimes when I have to make a rhythmic entrance in Wind Ensemble, I panic and change my tongue position all around, frantically trying to find the “magic” spot right up until I start the note, usually late and with a clumsy slap tongue. I don’t think I’m going to be able to fix this on my own. I’ve read a LOT of articles on tonguing and am familiar with the ways most people explain it, but I can’t translate those words into what I actually do with my tongue and air. I want someone who is willing to focus intensely on this without distractions like technique and repertoire me until I’ve got the problem licked (so to speak).
Leanne-
I have had an equal lack of results trying to articulate with the tip and the middle of the tongue. Attempts to tongue with the pointed end of the tongue or the top of the end result in “slap” (it sounds like Marcus Miller). I have a long tongue and it takes some weird manipulation to even get the tip to the reed. I have had more luck with the center of the tongue. I have studied with four different clarinet teachers. One felt my tonguing was fine and needed no improvement (I did not stick with him long). Two assigned Langenus page 22, which was not helpful, because A. it focuses on repeated articulation past the initial attack, which I have no problem with, and B. Practicing is not when you learn to do something. Practicing is repetition of something you can already do to make it a habit. If I cannot start a note cleanly, practicing etudes full of starting notes will only reinforce bad habits.
The fourth teacher (the good one, who moved away) had me play repeated notes with a metronome, first with every other note muted with the tongue (touching, but not stopping the reed), then stopping it. This was the most useful exercise I’ve come across, and after spending 45 minutes a day on it for about a year I am able to start notes in the low register (low C to D or E depending on the reed or the day), but still can’t start notes in time in the low clarion. For a while, upper clarion notes actually started with a breath attack followed by some tongue motion (this was pointed out by a friend). I was unable to do the same kind of tongue release above the break as below. Attempts to correct this were unsuccessful and actually messed up my ability to voice the high notes for a while. Also, I was unable to vary the intensity of the attack on the low notes- the attack was clean and in time, but was too soft for many situations.
I would be interested in studying with you, especially if you have had success in teaching bass clarinet articulation.
Ed: See previous. There is nothing like a GOOD teacher in the room. In my experience, there are two approaches to teaching an instrument: the “all you need is scales and repertoire” approach, or, spending time working on individual components out of context and then putting them back in place. I prefer the latter approach, of course, but most teachers seem to prefer the former. I have actually found a saxophone teacher who has helped me break down my playing and I’ve made huge amounts of improvement since I started studying with her.
Tony:
This seems like it would be useful for practicing articulation. See letter B in my response to Leanne.
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