 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: markcr
Date: 2011-03-09 15:08
I was wondering if someone could explain the terms "free-blowing" and "resistant" clarinet mouthpieces and maybe provide an example (Vandoren mouthpiece A is free-blowing and Yamaha mouthpiece B is resistant, etc.)
I see these terms a lot and don't know what they mean.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-09 16:26
In general, the idea is that you need to put in more effort on mouthpiece "B" to get the same results you get from "A." So this is still subjective to a great degree and determined by the player.
A Vandoren example may be an M13 (mouthpiece "A") is more free blowing than an M30 (mouthpiece "B") because the M30 has thicker rails and the articulation response is slower.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-03-09 17:59
Paul
if the articulation response is slower in a more resistant mouthpiece, what are the advantages of getting a resistant mouthpiece over one that will take less effort and have faster articulation response?
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-03-09 18:07
It is determined by the reed strength too. A mouthpiece itself is not resistant nor free-blowing in my opinion. I can adjust the same 3.5 Vandoren reed for both mouthpieces mantioned above to achive the same resistance on them.
I like to say free-blowing when I can work with a lot of air when playing ff and pp. I think it depends much more on the internal dimensions of the mouthpiece.
I would say with a proper reed the M30 is a very free blowing mouthpiece.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-09 18:16
From the mouthpiece refacer's standpoint, I have found that a highly curved facing (without regard to facing length or tip opening) will tend to be more resistant (more back-pressure against blowing) but have a richer and more colorful sound, than a facing with a flatter curve (closer to being a straight line from the beginning of the curve to the tip) which will be more free-blowing but have less tonal color.
Wish I could draw you a picture to illustrate this!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-03-09 21:15
You can't really say that one type of mouthpiece is more free blowing or resistant that another because what's free blowing for one person may be resistant to another. That depends on large part on a persons embouchure, jaw strength, etc, etc, etc. Think this, if you play with a soft reed it is a lot freer blowing than if you put on a hard reed which is more "resistant". The idea is to find a mouthpiece that gives you the sound and articulation you look for and feel comfortable at the same time so you don't have to work too hard but is not so easy to blow that you can't control the intonation. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2011-03-09 23:49
If you still think you're confused about resistant and free-blowing, try asking these same experts to explain "dark", "bright", and "colorful"![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) .
I'd recommend an M-15 for easy to play, a B-45 for more resistance with your 'usual' reed (but may play great with a softer reed).
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-10 00:49
For clarification, I would NEVER say slower or "thuddier" or resistant has any advantage at all. In fact, quite the contrary, I prefer a mouthpiece/reed setup that enables the easiest articulation and the most nimble movement across the largest skips.
That said, I can't help but recall the mouthpieces that were fine in these regards but just had too much sizzle (I can't describe it better than that at the moment).
And as for resistant being equated to "more open," I don't think that is the point. We've all come across mouthpieces that allow the same amount of air and "effort" but there are qualities that slow things down a bit. For me it is a combination of the contouring of the baffle, size of the tone chamber and opening leading to the bore that makes these differences. I only referred to the Vandoren M30 issue because it is A FACT the greater the surface area on which the reed vibrates, the less freely the reed will vibrate (makes sense doesn't it????).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: markcr
Date: 2011-03-10 02:48
I really appreciate all of your responses. I'm assimilating a bit of knowledge from each post I read. Please understand that I'm brand new to clarinet. I've been playing stringed instruments for over 30 years so I'm not new to music. However, this new instrument is not like anything I've dealt with before. There are SO many variables involved it can be overwhelming to the newcomer. Case in point, I've been studying reed selection (clarity, heart shape, grain pattern, etc.) only to go down to buy some new Vandoren reeds from my local music store and find that they are all foil wrapped. Nice. :-) Anyway, back to mouthpieces. I bought a Clark Fobes Debut mouthpiece and I really like it. There is NO comparison between it and the mouthpiece that came with my $200.00 Amazon clarinet. With the original, I got lots of chirps, eye bulges, barks and an occasional fart. LOL! As soon as I put the Debut on, I could actually play the instrument and make real music. So, I'm just trying to find out if it would be considered a free-blowing or restrictive mouthpiece, etc. I do find that I push pretty hard to get the sound to come out but that could just be my embryonic embouchure. Again, I appreciate all the input from everyone.
-Mark
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-10 11:08
Dear markcr,
Point taken.
Your new mouthpiece sounds like a very good one. Stick with that for a good while before jumping into the "equipment syndrome." For if and when you do, you will find mouthpieces that just seem right and those that don't. Only you will be able to make that determination as Ed Palanker states above.
As for the current "pushing pretty hard," my guess is that the reeds are perhaps a bit too strong (naturally they will ease up a bit as you break them in, but you want to start pretty close to what you want). I would suggest trying a few that are a half strength weaker and a few that are a full strength weaker. Finding a match for yourself is a matter of trial and error. Just go with it.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-03-10 17:24
The "Debut" is quite likely "middle of the road" as far as resistance goes. One generality might be that close tip openings are more resistant. (generally)
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: markcr
Date: 2011-03-10 17:42
I'm extremely happy with my Fobes Debut mouthpiece. I feel that I get better and better tone each day and am able to work through more of the registers. I'm just starting to learn to cross the break.
I have a Korg metronome/tuner that I use during all my practice sessions and the one thing the Debut has improved upon compared to my old mouthpiece is the intonation. I can play spot-on tune every time. There are notes on the clarinet that are sometimes 10 cents or more off but each time I play the note, the tuner reads the same each time. With my old mouthpiece, I'd play a "C" and who knows what note would come out. Sometimes C, sometimes C+20 cents sometimes C-15 cents. It was all over the map. The Debut cleaned all that up which is great because now I can play in tune with various "play-along" recordings and it sounds fairly good.
I think the Debut measures 17mm face length and a 1 mm tip opening. I've been using it with #3 Rico Royals and am getting good sound from my clarinet. I've ordered some Vandoren V12's in #3 but they have not arrived yet. Not sure if my embouchure is strong enough yet but I'll give them a try.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-10 19:07
From my experience in refacing mouthpieces I feel obliged to take exception with Arnoldstang's generality about closer tip openings resulting in more resistance. Instead, permit me to elaborate on the statement in my previous post:
The resistance of a clarinet mouthpiece seems to be mostly a function of the amount of curvature of the facing, independent of tip opening. (I'm talking only about clarinet mouthpieces, which are relatively uniform in interior dimensions -- so the height of the baffle, which can vary greatly in sax mouthpieces and also affects the resistance, is not much of a factor with clarinet mouthpieces.)
A closer tip opening will require a harder reed to keep the reed from closing up, but such a mouthpiece will not necessarily be more or less resistant than a more open mouthpiece. The more open mouthpiece will require a softer reed to avoid breathiness and loss of dynamic control; but once again, an open mouthpiece (given an appropriate reed strength) can be either resistant or free-blowing or somewhere in the middle, depending on the curvature of the facing.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2011-03-11 01:42
David,
The baffle is not insignificant in the feel of a mouthpiece and indeed has a noticeable impact on the resistance felt by the player.
The tip opening is indeed significant as well (although many people use this as the only meaningful factor, which isn't right either). To the professional or knowledgeable mouthpiece tech, a difference of one or two points is very noticeable (1.03 to 1.04-1.05 for example). This difference does have an affect on resistance.
I agree with you however on tip opening as it relates to resistance, generally.
The more open you go at the tip, the more you have to compensate in other areas of the mouthpiece for the inherent resistance of the open tip. A softer reed will be more flexible and compensate somewhat for the increased distance of vibration. A longer facing can help free up the mouthpiece as well (Vandoren M30's for example). Internal compensations for resistance also can be made, such as deepening the baffle, creating an A frame, or widening the window to name a few. Thinner side and tip rails can help the sluggish response of many open tip mouthpieces.
I have a few theories as to why people think close tip=resistance.
1) They assume that you can get more air more easily through a wide tip opening. A big assumption...
2) They have tried close mouthpieces with reeds that were too hard. Many times people try someone elses complete setup (with their reed\lig\clarinet) and the reed is much too hard, so the assume that must be the mouthpiece.
3) Facing length is too short. A very short facing on a close tip will feel fairly resistant (moreso than a mouthpiece that is a bit more open but with a long facing).
4) There are other factors in the mouthpiece comparison that aren't accounted for. If mouthpiece A has a 1.01 (close) tip on a mouthpiece with a high baffle and a short facing and mouthpiece B has a 1.08 tip opening but a long facing with thin rails and a lower baffle the person may assume since the mouthpiece B is less resistant, it must be the tip opening.
5) The type and integrity of the curve. A close tip on a pyne that is assymetric will feel much more resistant than a medium tip with a symmetrical facing.
There are many more... but that's all I have time for at the moment.
Also, regarding reeds: on a close tip (south of 1mm) I can use blue box 3.5 or equivalent. On a mouthpiece more open, but less than 1.12, I can use the same type of reeds. I would select different reeds from the box, but the difference shouldn't be like:
1mm tip= Vandoren 5's
1.10mm tip= Vandoren 2.5's.
Reeds as it relates to tip opening has been grossly exaggerated for the most part.
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Author: markcr
Date: 2011-03-11 15:24
Very educational. Thanks to everyone who posted and for taking the time to explain (with examples) the nuances of mouthpiece/reed physics with regard to playability.
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