 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-01-14 14:40
I though that i knew the differance between a note and a chord. That was until I was watching JAZZ and then I got confused.
so would someone please explain the differance between the two.
Thanks
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-14 15:42
Note - a single tone by itself.
Chord - several notes sounded together and there are rules as to what notes can go together to comprise that chord.
Simple example.
Note - The tone C.
Chord - Tonic chord in C major. The notes C E G are played simultaneously
Also there is an arpeggio or broken chord. An arpeggio is when you play the notes that belong to a chord but play them sequentially rather than simultaneously. Clarinet method books may have a page of practice "chords" but the technically correct term is arpeggio. So if you see a page titled "Exercise on Dominant 7th Chords" (as one page in Klose is titled), you are actually working on arpeggios. This type of loose application of terminology is also common, perhaps even more prevalent, in spoken communications.
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Author: deebee
Date: 2001-01-14 15:43
Most simply, a bunch of different notes sounded together at the same time makes a chord. (But hang on there - i haven't seen the JAZZ program myself...)
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Author: william
Date: 2001-01-14 15:51
A note is a single pitch, played or written. A chord describes the triad arrangement of three or more notes--ex. C-E-G spelling the C major chord. They may be played one note at a time--resulting in an arpeggio--or all together--resulting in harmony. In jazz, chord usually usually refers to the harmonic accompaniment needed for a particular part of the tune being played. Classic "blues" progression: C / / / C / / / C / / / C7 / / / F / / / F / / / C / / / C / / / G / / / G7 / / / C / / / C / / /
Hope this simple expanination helps clarify things. Godd jazzing.
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Author: Daniel Bouwmeester
Date: 2001-01-14 16:02
Bob, I don't totally understand your question, but being a classicall and jazz clarinetist, I can probably sort of answer your question.
Whenever you read a piece of classical music, such as a concerto, the aim is to express your feelings by variating dynamics, tone colours, tempo. The music is writen for you.. in notes...
In jazz, the expression is shown through your creativity in improvising, and of course as in classical, through dynamics, and tone.
In jazz you usually use a sheet (from for example the real book), where a 16 or 12 ..etc bar melody is written (depending on the style you are playing), and you have chords written on this sheet. Why chords ?
In improvisation, one must play a sequence of notes contained in a scale which is indicated by the Chord that is written on the sheetmusic.
Some people do that by practicing scales every day, some other people do that by ear, using the melody as a guidance (singing the melody in the head while improvising) and listening to the chords given by the piano and the bass.
In each case, the result is similar. There are exceptions on the chord/scale rule, such as he blue scale, which works nearly everywhere.
I hope this answers to your question.
Best Wishes
Daniel
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2001-01-14 17:13
Just to help (or muddy thing up) Rameaux (forgive my spelling) a French keyboard player came up with the concept of chords, during the early Baroque period. We tend to like the sound of every other note in a scale played together and basing music on these structures lends form to music. Played together or as arpeggios.
So a C chord is C E G
D (minor) is D F A
E (minor) is E G B
F is F A C
G is G B D
and I bet you can figure out A and B.
and so on.
Early jazz often used the 12 bar blues as its structure, as noted above. Players often add in the 'blue notes' which are not in the major key (Bb to the C chord, Eb to the F chord and F to the G chord) Try it its really fun!
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-01-14 17:30
Thanks for all the great feedback.
My understanding was that a chord was more then one note played at the same time. i.e. piano, or guitar. I couldn't figure out how a clarinet could play a chord since we have to play one note at a time. Granted we can go fast as heck, and i guess that comes close to a chord.
Thanks
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-01-14 19:40
Clarinets can't play chords (intervals, yes, using multiphonics, but chords require 3 notes minimum) - but when they talk about clarinets playing "chords" they mean the clarinet taking one note of a chord in a band.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-14 19:41
bob gardner wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the great feedback.
> My understanding was that a chord was more then one note played
> at the same time. i.e. piano, or guitar. I couldn't figure
> out how a clarinet could play a chord since we have to play one
> note at a time. Granted we can go fast as heck, and i guess
> that comes close to a chord.
>
Like I said, its a casual use of the term chord for what is really an arpeggio (notes in a chord played sequentiall). Knowing the notes in a chord and various inversions for example help facilitate improvisation using the notes of the chord in various sequences such as those resulting from straight, 1st inversion, 2nd inversion, etc. Then try various rhythms and you're in business.
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Author: Daniel Bouwmeester
Date: 2001-01-14 20:53
Sorry Dee, I don't agree !
In a piece of music, a chord symbol does not necessarily imply an arpeggio, but a can imply a scale that is compatible with this chord.
In jazz, there are fixed rules where one says that you have to use specific scales with a specific chord.
For example a Cmaj7 chord describes the following scales :
C major, C lydian, C major bebop, C major pentatonic and G major pentatonic
each one of these scales can be used for this chord as well as combination of them.
I suggest you have a look at :
http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/ms-primer-4.html
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-14 21:08
I was trying to keep it simple as bob is a relative beginner. As you say, a chord can imply a number of different scales. I did not say that a chord symbol implied an arpeggio. Merely that clarinets can't play chords as chords but can play them as arpeggios. This can be used as a basis, but not the only basis, for improvisation. Please don't read more into a post than is there.
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2001-01-15 01:13
Clarinets can and do play chords. Sorry to quibble (oh actually I enjoy it as much as the next person) but arpegios are considered chords.
Per Siegmeister's book "Harmony and Melody" (your basic music theory text) I quote:
" The tones or voices of a chord need not always be sounded together as a block chord; they may be played one after the other as a broken chord without in anyway changing their harmonic structure."
Modernistic definitions like are used elsewhere ' a chord is three or more tones sounding together', so they can include chords built on seconds and other intervals.
As that may be, looking for harmonic structure is the underlying importance of analysis with chords, not whether the tones sound together or are 'broken'!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-01-15 02:20
The Harvard Dictionary of Music disagrees with "Harmony and Melody":
"The simultaneous sounding of three or more tones, two simultaneous tones usually being designated as an interval."
The dictionard described a Broken Cord (sic) as:
"Term for figurations consisting of the notes of a chord ... The term "arpeggio is often used as a synonym."
The Dictionary makes the distinction. So I guess we're both right .
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2001-01-15 04:05
Actually, Dee is on to something. Much early improvising had a heavy arpeggio content. The 'rules' have evolved over time and compliance is voluntary even today. I appreciate her suggestion that Bob take this simple item and start improvising immediately. It was very good advice.
In fact, I started out using arpeggios myself. The pentatonic scale is a better starting point, but at age 14 I had no clue that it existed. All I had was a Benny Goodman record from the library.
Two comments:
On the proper scale implied by the chord:
Here is a typical sequence in modern jazz called the ii-V-I. I'll give it to you in C. Dm7-G7-C. A proper scale for Dm7 is D Dorian (a C major scale played from D to D). A proper scale for G7 is G mixolydian, a (C major scale played from G to G). For C, C6 or Cmaj7, a C major scale would be proper. What does all this mumbo-jumbo mean? It means that a C major scale serves all three chords just fine if the player has an okay ear and a little common sense.
On trying improvisation for yourself:
How did most players learn it? They bought records and played along with them. You can do the same. I started in the 9th grade, and teach people to do it every day. TRY IT AND ENJOY YOURSELF. The pentatonic scale is also a great starting point. (in C, it's C-D-E-G-A) BLOW TO YOUR HEART'S CONTENT with or without accompaniment.
This is not to disparage Daniel or the rules for improvising that have evolved. They are very handy indeed. But I think that these rules can be intimidating, unnecessary and sometimes misleading for beginners. (I'd be happy to elaborate on this if anyone is curious)
I'm just glad that the jazz show is sparking some interest. If anyone wants to know more about getting started, start a new thread.
Allen Cole
allencole@richmond.com
http://allencole.tripod.com
http://www.jamschool.net
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Author: Stefano
Date: 2001-01-15 11:13
I have played for years the guitar, before starting the clarinet, and I can tell you that Mark is right: Clarinets can't play chords (intervals, yes, but not chords).
The fact that the chord can be broken down in an arpeggio it does not make the same a chord.
Indeed, a piano or guitar can play an arpeggio which is close to a chord simply because each note played in sequence is continuing to vibrate while the other following notes are played.
When you play an arpeggio with the Clarinet, every time you play a note of the sequence, you must interrupt the preceding note... therefore, it never happens that 3 notes played in sequence with a Clarinet are vibrating together (unless you add a strong echo effect).
This is also the reason why, while you can play a melody on a single string of a guitar, you can't play a chord with only one string! :^[)
All of the above is simple reality, and it does not diminish the value and beauty of the Clarinet.
Stefano.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-01-15 14:47
The "blue note" in jazz is the lowered third of a major chord, not the seventh. Ex: in the C major dominant seventh chord (C E G Bb) the "blue note" would be Eb. By the way, Bob, a good way to start to learn improvisation is to experiment with the "blues scale." In the tonality of C major, the blues scale would be: C Eb F F# G Bb C Using the blues progression that I gave above, you can play any of these notes at any time and they will "fit." Be creative--play them in any order, with any rhythmic variation, but use only the notes of the blues scale (no D E A or B). Good luck and have fun digesting all of our help to your post.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-01-15 15:24
Bob -
The terminology they used in "Jazz" is a little confusing. What they mean by "playing the chord" is not playing several notes at once, but playing notes that fit into the underlying chord.
A song like the human body. The basic structure is a sequence of harmonies, which is like the skeleton. Both determine the shape and possible types of movement of everything else. The melody and possible improvisations are like the muscles and skin. They can do only what's possible within the harmony, just as you can move your arm only in the way your skeleton permits.
When the harmony at the moment is, say, C major, jazz players say "the chord is C." When the chord is C, you have to play a note that is either a member of the C chord (C-E-G) or deliberately play a non-chord (non-harmonic) note that changes ("resolves") a member of the chord.
In real life and real musical performance, it's a lot more complicated, but you get the point....
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: deebee
Date: 2001-01-15 16:19
Does anyone have concerns about giving the "blues scale" to beginner improvisers?
[...maybe this should be a new thread...]
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-01-15 19:25
This was great. i opened a BIG and on this thread. i really enjoyed all of the post.
My basic concention was correct. Clarinet can't do chords but whatever.
Again thank you all very much. I think you all are great.
Bob
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Author: Todd H.
Date: 2001-01-15 21:44
The blues scale ( and others) ought to be learned, better sooner than later I think.
Use it, abuse it and get used to it. It is a good way to become familiar with playing over chord changes. Once you know such a scale pattern, you start to hear all kinds of examples of it.
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-01-16 03:53
Interesting...
In choral music, the aepeggio played to indicate pitch to the various parts is often called a "rolled chord".
I had a friend in High School insist he could sing a chord. (He was, as you can guess, a non-musician!) He would strike a major chord on the piano, then utter a sound that wasn't any of the 3 notes. He wouldn't accept that by definition, a single sound is not a chord.
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2001-01-16 04:27
Let me put it this way, Deebee. Anyone interested in jazz would do well to know the blues scales. That said, I do have trepidations about teaching it to youngsters too soon. The reason is that it fits TOO well into many situations, and tends to become a one-size-fits-all solution. It is also more difficult for young players to learn in multiple keys.
In contrast, the pentatonic is easily extrapolated from the major scale, can sound either major or minor (relative major/minor), and allows any two students the chance to jam endlessly on simple pieces like "My Girl" and "Stand By Me." (one playing a bass pattern, and one soloing) It also works well over blues changes, and can just barely squeak through an I Got Rhythm bridge.
It also has inadequecies that begin to grate on the user, who will often 'discover' solutions like the flat third on their own. They also tend to notice how the third varies over blues changes. Having them discover this for themselves is so much nicer than giving them carte blanche with blue notes from the get-go.
Another great thing about pentatonics is the fact that you can try and ride a single pent. scale throughout a song, and then turn around and use a different pent. for each chord or each key center. That's a lot of learning experience for something that a kid can easily pull out of a major scale.
Besides, major pentatonics lead to minor pentatonics, and the addition of the #4/b5 to any minor pentatonic gives you--VOILA!--the blues scale.
Okay, I'm spent...
Allen
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