 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: runner
Date: 2011-02-20 15:57
Yesterday my 10th grade student played "Prelude" from Five Bagatelles by Finzi.She received a II rating which was justified. I listened to another student perform the same piece and also received a II. My 9th grader received a I for the 2nd movement of Mozart: well deserved , excellent musicality etc. However she received a II in the past on Finzi.
My question: Have any of you found a trend in your students who have performed a Finzi piece at H.S. Solo&Ensemble receiving II ratings. I am starting to believe that some pieces by their very nature can earn a slightly lower rating than others. I used to think that any orchestra can sound good on Sibelieus 2nd Symphony until I heard a dreary performance by a major orchestra.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2011-02-20 20:07
I judge NYSSMA in New York -
I get the sense that there are judges (non-clarinetists) that seem to feel that some pieces (as much as we love them as clarinetists) just don't have the "wow factor" to score high, no matter how proficient the performance.
An example which comes to mind, besides the Finzi, is the Schumann Fantasy Pieces. I've rarely seen a clarinetist get a very high score by playing them, even when the performance has been (in my mind) superior.
On the other hand - a piece like the Poulenc Sonata almost always scores fairly high, when played decently.
It's just one of the quirks in a subjective judging system.
...GBK
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Author: davyd
Date: 2011-02-20 20:39
Why should the choice of piece make a difference? Where a student is concerned, it seems like the only thing that should matter is how well they played the piece, especially since the student might well have had it assigned to them, rather than have selected it themselves. Should teachers assign more spectacular pieces for which their students might not be ready?
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Author: BassClarinetBaby
Date: 2011-02-20 22:26
Well, the second movement of Mozart is slightly easier than Prelude, in my opinion. I think that's really the only factor.
Never Bb, sometimes B#, and always B natural! ♫♪
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2011-02-20 23:10
That has happened to a number of really good students I have taught, where my student played a piece that they could play well even if they had some nerves, while the person who wins almost always plays a piece that is clearly beyond their ability. I even see videos on youtube of very young players attempting to play upper intermediate and advanced repertoire at 9-11 years old, which I find have several problems, especially with tempo (usually too slow) and tone. But quite a few of those students who don't win competitions yet play extremely well earn top marks on exams and get into high level ensembles.
I even saw something like this happen at a brass competition, where I was the page turner for my husband, for a trombone player competing in it. One euphonium player, who the audience clearly loved, (my husband and I also thought highly favourably of her too) didn't even get a spot in the finals, she did not crack a single note and had a great tone, while a trumpet player with a thin tone and cracked at least twice, got in the finals.
Maybe their teachers are pushing them to play such advanced repertoire, maybe it's the parents. (in the case of violinists and pianists, I know sometimes it is the parents) I know I had a student, now studying music performance in university, when he came to me several years ago, his previous teacher that he had for a year and a half had him thinking he was playing at an early advanced level for that length of study, which, to me, just isn't right. Fortunately he was willing to go back a few levels (I find quite a few students aren't, and over-estimate their ability) to restore confidence, and it propelled him to where he is now.
Maybe some of the adjudicators are afraid of the people who seem "too good" for the pieces they are playing. This is one reason I hate age classes, you can have studying since they were 9, and others having studied an instrument for a year or two. I prefer classes in competitions where they specify a specific piece or at least specify pieces from a certain level list.
Just some thoughts.
Meri
Please check out my website at: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com and my blog at: http://clariniano.wordpress.com
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2011-02-21 04:23
Ken, the 'Colin Bradbury' recording names the Clarinet player as 'John Bradbury'. Are they the same person?
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-02-21 05:18
Phurster wrote:
>> Ken, the 'Colin Bradbury' recording names the Clarinet player as 'John Bradbury'. Are they the same person?>>
John Bradbury is Colin Bradbury's son.
Tony
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-02-21 13:45
I saw the name Bradbury and my eyes changed the first name to the one I knew. Thanks for the correction, Tony,
Ken Shaw
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-02-21 20:34
Runner, I think there is something to what you're saying.
Your story reminds me of a solo and ensemble experience back
when I was in high school. I was determined to play the Rimsky-Korsakov clarinet concerto, and performed it at the district festival. The adjudicator must have liked it because he made many nice comments and gave me a "I" (highest) rating. Several weeks later, it was time for state festival. I thought I played it well and I received a "I" rating, but my score was the lowest score possible to qualify for this rating. The adjudicator (a university clarinet professor) said very little. His few comments were minor criticisms, and he had nothing complimentary to say. At the time, I couldn't figure out why he was so negative. Later on I discovered that this concerto is not highly regarded by clarinetists, and suddenly, everything made sense.
Based on various things I've seen over the years, I think some adjudicators do have a bias against some pieces including "easier" pieces like the Finzi Bagatelles or the Schumann Fantasy Pieces. Unfortunately, Finzi's music isn't well-known in the US, so there may also be a bias from some judges (who aren't familiar with his music) because he isn't a "name-brand" composer.
I've prepared many private students for these festivals over the years, and my own kids have participated. Here's what some adjudicators need to keep in mind: these are middle school and high school students. They aren't college music majors, and they aren't playing a jury or recital. Some will go on to become music majors, but most won't. Some will want to take on "hard" pieces like the Weber Grand Duo, the Stravinsky Three Pieces,
or the Poulenc Sonata, while others are perfectly happy playing one of the Finzi Bagatelles, a Schumann Fantasy Piece, or the Vaughan-Williams Six Studies in English Folk Song. All of these should be considered to be perfectly valid choices. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've heard students attempt to play pieces that are way too difficult for them, and the result is usually frustration and/or anger. It shouldn't be this way.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2011-02-22 05:05
I wouldn't say that Finzi is not known in the US especially among clarinetists. If there's a college clarinet major or graduate out there who hasn't played the Five Bagatelles I'd be shocked. I think that in this case you have a NON-CLARINET judge who doesn't know the clarinet repertoire, of which the Finzi is a staple.
On the other hand, the Korsakov is a hideous piece to many, if not most, clarinetists and, as such, is not well regarded within the clarinetist circles. But if I were a trombonist and heard a clarinetist play that piece, I might not have the same opinion.
I'm sure it varies from region to region whether a clarinet player at a S&E festival is judged by a clarinetist or someone who specializes in some other instrument. When I played I recall performing mostly for the latter (I believe one was a euphonium player, another a flutist, one a clarinetist one year when I was living in Europe). And it's unfortunate that when this occurs it's often necessary to play a more difficult piece to get a similar rating.
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Author: runner
Date: 2011-02-23 02:49
Thanks for the comments. The have made me think and evaluate.
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