 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dsaf
Date: 2001-01-10 01:38
What woodwind products do you hate most?
I hate those "grease-less" cork lubricant sticks that are supposed to replace cork grease. They don't work at all because none of it (the lubricating substance) will come off. It's really hard, like a crayon only none of it rubs off. I paid like $3 for one at WW&BW.
I also hate those tiny felt swabs (like yamaha brand) that most elementary school students use because they don't absorb moisture at all. That's probably why most younger players don't swab their instruments at all. The swabs they were given don't work. And they smell bad too, after you use them once or twice.
and...that reedwell thing in the WW&BW catalog looks pretty stupid.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-01-10 02:04
This should be an interesting discussion. Let's give good reasons for why we do not like the products or an example of their defects so that others can make informed decisions about whether they want to try them.
1. See post below - the fuzzy "pad savers" that retain moisture and provide an ideal environment for mold, mildew, and bacteria to grow on wood and pads.
2. Many manufacturers bore oil - read the label it is plain old light mineral oil which makes it the most expensive baby oil on the planet and is really not good for the wood long term.
3. Cork "grease" either tube or tub - about 10 cents worth of petroleum product that is smelly, too greasy and will rot your cork over time and often loosens the glue that holds the cork on the tenon.
4. I'll second - the swabs that are waterproof and scratchy!
5. Metronomes that are so soft that you have to stop playing to hear them.
6. Music stands that have a tray so shallow that they will only hold one music book.
And the list goes on - but I can't have all the fun
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Author: Meri
Date: 2001-01-10 02:22
Hmm, perhaps this could develop into some type of "Top 10 Worst Clarinet Products" (and maybe a conjunct for "10 best clarinet products" in which case, Legere Reeds and the clips that clip onto a music stand to hold the film canister with water would be my top picks. Also, plastic sweing boxes with compartments of various sizes to hold all your clarinet things.
I'll put in a vote for Flavareeds (I've never seen them, but from what I've heard, they're really bad), and plain orange-box Ricos.
Meri
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Author: Fred
Date: 2001-01-10 02:44
I'll second the comment about swabs. What I resent is the price that a decent one costs. I don't mind paying for a technician's expertise or substantial supplies, but $12-18 for a hankie and string is highway robbery.
There . . . I feel better.
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Author: Amanda Rose
Date: 2001-01-10 03:08
Hmm...
-flavorreeds (I've seen 'em)
-silver folding music stands (both for weakness and the fact that mine is at a 190* angle!)
-the little pad saver things
-my old beeping metronome which used to turn on for no reason while it was on the stand (IT WAS POSSESSED!)
-the swabs that come with Buffets! They don't work for me!
-almost all student mouthpieces (especially the ones that come with Buffets)
-lyres that scratch the wood (mine on my old clari)
-Selmer Cases for the student claris (they're too darn big!)
Okay, I'm done.
Adios!
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2001-01-10 05:35
Hmm...let's see what I hate:
1 - Big, thick squishy mouthpiece patches like the Runyon black, or the Yamaha 0.5mm. An instant case of even lower pitch for most small fry.
2 - "Credit card" metronomes. How loud can one be if it runs forever off of watch batteries?
3 - Mouthpiece 'savers'. What a gross, septic concept!
4 - Duet books (mostly from Warner Bros) that have multibar rests for a piano part that they didn't sell you with the book!
5 - The Buffet B10, with its body-mounted adhesive key bumpers and nylon lever pins. A repairman's pension!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-10 08:35
1. Synthetic corks on tenons, which have too much friction and cannot hold grease.
2. Synthetic self adhesive key corks which migrate off the keys.
3. Thumb rest design. They are convex curved in one plane. That is good, but they should also be conCAVE curved in the other plane to spread the pressure over a wider area of thumb.
4. Adjustable thumb rests that have to be put in their extreme position to be used.
5. Adjustable thumb rests that are designed to swipe and remove bridge keys or break themselves offm in the attempt.
6. Sticky silicon cork greases (almost all that is on the market) which leave a residue which makes the tenons more difficult to assemble! (Try cleaning it off)
7. Selmer Paris Signature low key cups and pads which are too small in diameter to be reliable on the extra large diameter tone holes.
8. Music stand adjustors that strip their threads, even when tightened only by hand.
9. Music stands with U-section legs which bend beyond repair when you stand on them.
10. Bridge key geometry. When the keys are closed the contacting surfaces should be tangents (at that region) to a circle concentric with the bore, otherwise a slight turn of the tenon messes up the linkage accuracy.
11. Key pillars that wobble on new plastic instruments with names starting with 'A'.
12. Absorbent case lining set up to contact the ends of pivot rods and wick away the oil. That's why those rods in contact always go rusty before others.
13. Buescher's badly designed bronze flat-springs that ensure that side keys have a reluctant, sluggish, high friction feel.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-01-10 12:01
Music stands that won't take their Viagra as prescribed.
anji
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Author: JC
Date: 2001-01-10 15:41
I'm surprised at all the negativity at cork grease. What do you guys usually use?
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Author: lbh
Date: 2001-01-10 19:20
I think I am going to have to aggree with Steve and say
I HATE REEDS !
laur
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-01-10 19:28
JC & RB
Yes we have lively debates about almost everything including cork grease. I guess it runs the gamut, now from lard (first time I've ever heard this one - lard should only be used IMHO for the best pie crusts ever made) to a new synthetic aerospace product from NASA research which I have recently been testing with outstanding results - one dab works for weeks! Maybe even the "Green Doctor" will go high tech! ---- Whatever Works For You!
The Doctor
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-01-10 20:25
Oooo... Space Slime! Tell me more! So if vintners have begun to use polyproplene cork for wine, why are we still using the stuff on horns?
If every other mechanical contriavance were so hide bound by tradition, we would still be driving Tin Lizzies and listening to the Edison by the icebox.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-01-10 21:00
Anji and all -
I was trying to think of a name for the stuff other than the Dept. of Defense letters and numbers but "space slime" is a good one. Go to the Sneezy Sponsors page and read the description on my web site. Without a grossly commercial sales pitch - I'll just say that it is unbelievably long lasting!!
The Doctor
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-10 22:09
JC wrote:
>
> I'm surprised at all the negativity at cork grease. What
> do you guys usually use?
I just use the regular commercial cork grease in a tube but the soft kind not the waxy kind. In a pinch, I've used chapstick (and contrariwise used the cork grease onn my lips if I were stuck without chapstick).
Yes I know it costs far more than it's worth packaged in the tube but it is convenient (and if you stop to think about it, chapstick is also overpriced and you are paying for the packaging convenience).
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-01-10 22:38
LARD! Too much cholesterol!
When I first received my horn (via mail order) and before I could make it to the Candy store, I too used chapstick in lieu of cork grease.........thought I was being inovative Dee ...........hope chapstick's okay in a pinch. There's no discription of the make up on my cork grease tube except the name, "S-series Cork Grease". Isn't posting the nutritional composition required by the FDA.........NO? I guess that's only for *food* products.
As evidenced by this topic, there is plenty of interesting info to be discovered right here on the BB.
~ jerry
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-01-10 23:14
Hey guys and gals-
I use "chapstick" to describe the container but would never use it on my cork. Even the petroleum based stuff in the chapstick tube is "better" (although it will eventually rot you cork and ruin all the compressability for which the cork was intended to make the airtight seal) than the real chapstick that you put on your lips. The lip formulation contains various alcohols - cetyl notably - that accelerate the decomposition of cork. Think history - various cork objects notably wine corks - were preserved with natural oils and bees wax and not petroleum based products - further back they only had animal oils but they found out that these also were bad for cork. Sure we need something to ease the assembly of the clarinet but not something that will ruin the cork and "greaseify" the wood of the tenon. These are fine wood instruments and deserve decent care.
Off my soapbox now - The Doctor
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2001-01-11 03:04
A good product for corks is Omar's cork grease. It even makes you happy when you use it because it smells nice. It also doesn't stain the liner on the case. As soon as I can get off my lazy butt I'm going to order another tub for my Eb horn so I don't have to keep migrating tubs from case to case. I haven't tried space slime yet, but it sounds slippery.
Bad products would necessarily have to include keys which cannot be easily reached. How in the Devil are we going to phrase beautiful fluid passages if we can't reach the damn keys!!!! I've got several on my bass clarinet which I'm going to pay good money to have extended for me. Another bad product would be customers like me who make a living hell out of the lives of service technicians by requiring them to make costmetically and ergonomically perfect jobs of key extending.
The worst product has to be the anatomically incorrect and incorrectly located thumbrest. It will cripple your entire arm. Then, after your arm has been crippled, you'll have to buy a better thumbrest (the best being the Kooiman) and pay to have it installed. To add insult to injury (as if the nagging overuse injury to your arm which will never entirely heal isn't insulting enough) you'll always have the tiny blemishes in your horn where the original screw holes were.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2001-01-11 09:41
Those little felt swabs are best used for oiling the bore of wooden clarinets but make sure you stick something soft over thhe metal weight so it doesnt scratch the bore. Useless for anything else however.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-11 15:11
The 'space slime' is fantastic cork grease indeed. I and about a thousand of my customers in New Zealand have been using it over the last 8 or so years. They don't go back to using anything else. It is actually called Alisyn cork grease and is an expensive product with therefore less profiteering available and more difficult marketing for retailers. So it seems retailers generally do not stock it. But it is stocked by the trade supplier Ferree's which means ALL band instrument repair depots have seen its advertised merits, are able to source it, and SHOULD stock it if they are interested in providing quality products to discerning customers.
It is ironic that it is seems better known here in New Zealand than in its big country of origin, US!
I am convinced that Omar is probably the only person around who is actually scientifically evaluating and formulating appropriate cork and timber treatment products for clarinets. If this product passes his critical lab tests and meets his seal of approval it SHOULD displace all other products I know of currrently being sold, excepting maybe his own one. Most of us have simply been conned into accepting the alternative junk! This stuff works so well, and you need so little, that it is probably also the most economical product in the long run.
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Author: me
Date: 2001-01-13 03:34
what do u guys think about plastic reeds?
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-13 17:13
Hi, Me -
I think they cost a lot more than they used to but they last a long time if you're careful with them.
ron b
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-14 14:26
Awesome profits if you can make a good one for 10 cents and retail it for $12 or more. Legere must be close to that. It's only a tiny piece of accurately shaped plastic - a bit like a classy MacDonald's kiddie toy. Just wait until the Taiwanese copy it.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-01-14 17:29
Right now Guy has to amortize the time & money spent formulating the plastic, getting it manufactured, and the cost of the CNC machines. I'll wager that the burdened cost of making the reed is well in excess of 10 cents.
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Author: Sara
Date: 2001-01-16 21:56
Okay my turn...what drives me insain are the solo and duet books that name the songs things like "duet #35"... what are you soppost to do get up in frount of people and say we will be playing "duet #35"???? Where are the real names???????????
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