 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2010-12-25 03:07
Happy Holidays everyone!
Unfortunately as I was packing up my B&H tonight I discovered a small crack had formed in the tenon receiver sockets at the top of the bottom joint. The crack is only about a 1/2" long and doesn't extend past the end of the socket. The tenon ring is a bit loose now so I'm guessing that the wood shrunk a bit from the low humidity and that this probably allowed the wood to crack.
As far as I understand the procedure to fix this would be to clean any remaining cork grease out of the socket using something like denatured alcohol and to then wick low viscosity CA glue (eg. Hot Stuff) into the crack. Would this be an appropriate repair technique or is there a better way?
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-12-25 14:02
That's the way I've done it, with success. I also wick it under the ring, in the assumption that humidity levels, and wood shrinkage have somewhat stabilized. This should prevent the crack from growing, or reappearing.
Very rare to see a B&H crack. Their grenadilla was usually very well seasoned, and not overly subject to shrinkage!
In fairness, many experts on this Board would argue for 're-swelling' the wood with oil or humidity instead of CA-stabilizing the rings. They may have a valid point, but I believe the danger of cracked wood from loose rings outweighs those concerns.
Clark G. Sherwood
Post Edited (2010-12-25 14:14)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-25 15:07
Must admit I've seen several B&H clarinets (due to their higher numbers in the UK) with split middle sockets due to the rings being loose - but once glued up and the ring is refitted (best refitted while the joints have shrunk so it stays tight when they swell up again), you shouldn't have any trouble.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-26 21:32
Sounds like the bell on my A clarinet (Buffet R13). The tenon socket has a hairline crack running through it. The ring moves freely (comes right off, actually). My barrel rings are moving as well (as they do every year at this time), but this is my first experience with anything cracking. I haven't had to use my A in a while, so I'm not sure how long it has been there. I've never had movement problems with the ring at the top of the lower joint.
Rachel
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-12-26 21:39
In cold weather horns shrink, such as when temps drop below 32 degrees.
To keep the rings tight on the clarinet putting cigarett paper between the rings and the tenons will keep the rings from falling off.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-27 00:42
If any socket rings are loose (no matter how much or little), you will run the risk cracking the sockets if you assemble your clarinet while they remain so.
Rings that are loose enough to turn through finger pressure (with some resistance) can be tightened by removing them, cleaning/degreasing the inside of the ring and the recess on the outside of the socket, then applying a thin layer of superglue around the entire circumference of the recess and replacing the ring (the right way up!).
Rings that are loose enough for them to come away easily, rattle or fall off will require shimming. You can use paper for this, so prep the socket ring and recess as mentioned above (with or without any superglue), then lay a piece of paper (the thickness of paper depends on how loose the rings are) over the end of the socket and replace the ring (the right way up) and tap it 2/3 to 3/4 the way down, then trim the excess paper (with a sharp blade) from around the base of the ring and trim away the paper disc covering the end of the socket, then tap the ring all the way down. If once that's done and the tenon is now a tight fit in the socket but only at the top causing the tenon rings to bind, then open up the socket in the area of the socket ring bit by bit until you get a good fit with the tenon (but don't remove too much wood from the socket as you'll end up with a wobbly joint).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-27 01:03
Chris P wrote:
> Rings that are loose enough to turn through finger pressure
> (with some resistance) can be tightened by removing them,
> cleaning/degreasing the inside of the ring and the recess on
> the outside of the socket, then applying a thin layer of
> superglue around the entire circumference of the recess and
> replacing the ring (the right way up!).
I thought you weren't supposed to glue the rings on a wooden clarinet because of expansion/contraction of the wood?
Also, I may be asking a stupid question, but how do you know which way is the right way up? I'm always careful to put them back on the same way they came off, but I don't see a difference (at least in my bell tenon socket ring). I know which way on that one is the right way because the bottom side has crud on it whereas the top side is clean. Once I had a barrel ring fall off and I didn't know there was a right and wrong side up; I just put it back on.
My current loose ring issues are the bell on my A and the rings on both of my barrels (Moennig 64mm (which is more likely for the rings to be loose), and a Chadash that used to be 66mm but the previous owner cut it down to 64mm).
Rachel
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-27 02:17
Superglue won't stick the rings on permanently so they can't ever be removed, but it will take up any gaps between the rings and the wood. If you get a chance to have a look at several makes of clarinets with loose rings you'll find they've more often than not used superglue or some kind of adhesive when fitting the rings. Even with a clarinet that's had the rings glued on, when the wood shrinks the rings will be loose as the glue will have come away.
The outer diameter of the rings will often be widest at the lowest edge than the top edge (the insides will be parallel), or have a bevel on the entire inside circumference of the lower edge, so be sure you do have them on the right way up as they may not be all that easy to remove and turn round once refitted if they're on tight.
As socket rings are generally completely circular, it doesn't matter if the rings have been rotated from their original position when refitted and they rarely get put back on in their original position once they've been off unless there's a slot or recess cut into it, a pillar or pillar strap fitted or a screw or pillar hole drilled and tapped through the ring making it important they go back on in the same position as they were originally.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2010-12-27 03:37
Just to add to the conversation, another thing to watch out for are the rings with little teeth on the inner circumference. I've found that these can often seem tight when the actually have loosened quite a bit. The rings with teeth won't spin when loose but will instead rock a little bit. These you actually need to pry off and then reinstall with a shim. I've had to do this on a couple of barrels and have generally ground off the little teeth before reinstalling them.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-12-27 15:32
Rachel,
I think that you should really put some moisture into your clarinet case to reverse the wood shrinkage. The shrinking is the result of the wood's moisture content coming down in the drier air of winter.
What I do is to put 2 pieces of dish washing sponge cut to 1x1x2-inch rectangles and placed into small plastic bags that cover 5 sides of the sponge leaving the top 1x2-inch surface exposed.
Saturate the sponges, put them into the little bags and tuck them open side up into your case. Keep them wet.
All of the commercial case humidifiers I've tried fail to bring the humidity up enough to really keep the instrument damp enough. In my environment, the heated air in the house this morning is at 34 percent relative humidity, but my clarinets are in their case with the humidistat reading about 52%.
My crack repairman recommends 60%, but many on this site think that is begging for needle spring rust. Not a problem for me because I can't get anywhere near 60%.
The double sponge set-up tightened up my rings in just a few days, and has warded off further cracks for 3-years. I really like my crack fixer, but hate having him work on my wood.
Bob Phillips
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-01-08 02:09
I got my bell crack fixed. My repair guy glued the crack and shimmed the ring. $5 and a day. Not bad.
I found out that my Moennig barrel is in fact cracked (2 cracks both running the length of the inside of the barrel; they both turn a bit as they travel; as in they don't run straight down). I put a drop of oil where one of the cracks started and it sucked the oil right down the crack. So, just because it looked cool, I did it to the other one, too. I won't play on that barrel anymore. If I hold it upside down, the top ring falls right off. My Chadash barrel top ring is only slightly loose (and there aren't any cracks).
Rachel
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2011-01-08 15:14
Where I am in California's Central Valley we don't tend to have large swings in humidity, so keeping the case humidified is a bit easier. I find a pill bottle just small enough to fit into the bell of my clarinet when it is in the case. I use a hot nail to melt four to six holes in the bottle just below the cap and cut a piece of kitchen sponge to just fit inside the bottle. After saturating the sponge, I shake out any excess water, replace the cap, and store it in the bell. I have an instrument that was developing three hairline cracks and a loose ring at the center socket and, after a few months with the pill bottle, I have not been able to locate the cracks again (except that I know where they are) and the ring is tight.
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