 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-09-10 03:33
Some comments on a recent post concerning perceived differences in tone when the alignment of the barrel was altered led to to experiment. My favourite horn is an old Jerome Thibouville-Lamy B
flat, which has a very sweet tone. The original barrel was cracked and tended to play flat, so I replaced it with an old wooden short Boosey barrel from my junkbox. This fixed the problem, but I've noticed some inconsistency in tone.
I'd put it down to unknown factors such as temperature and humidity, but the comments on barrel alignment got me thinking. I tested the horn while moving the barrel in increments of around 20 degrees, and there most definitely is one point at which it plays better. 2 spots actually, because it also works better at 180 degrees from this position. There is no ovality or eccentricity of the barrel that I can measure, no cracking or any other factors that I can detect. At this point the tone is precisely what i want, at 90 degrees it becomes slightly harsher, with a tendency to chirp.
Does anyone have any ideas as to why this might be so?
Tony F.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2010-09-10 05:45
Self fulfillinig prophesy maybe. Seriously....I dunno, but I've always been skeptical of the concept of barrel alignment.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-09-10 12:06
It certainly works on some barrels. Kalmen Opperman would find the best alignment and inset a small dot of mother of pearl in the trademark position.
Alignment of the bell can also make a difference. I've done it and made a tiny scratch in the wood to align with the low E post. In a video on grenadilla wood a few years ago, Michael Arrignon was shown checking the bell alignment on each Buffet Elite, after which the trademark was stamped to set the position.
It's worth spending a few minutes on, particularly since it doesn't cost anything.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-09-10 12:08
I was skeptical as well, until I noticed that on my Buffet in A from1931 and in B-flat from 1937, both in excellent playing condition, lining up the Buffet logos all the way down the instruments does make a slight difference. The same is not true on most of my other other clarinets and seems barely true (but within the "wishful thinking" margin for error) on some others, but it's definitely true on those two.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-09-10 14:07
Don't some barrelmakers make the bore slightly off center, so you can 'adjust' intonation?. The 'chirp' could be a leaky cork in one position.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: GBK
Date: 2010-09-10 14:54
Lelia Loban wrote:
> I was skeptical as well, until I noticed that on my
> Buffet in A from1931 and in B-flat from 1937,
> both in excellent playing condition, lining up the Buffet logos
> all the way down the instruments does make a slight difference.
Don't forget - in the Buffet manufacturing process, the (stock) barrel and upper joint are bored at the same time, while together. No doubt that many clarinetists prefer the "match" of these two pieces.
See 2'35" through 3'07" of the Buffet production video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gKjDqm4Bqw
...GBK
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-09-10 20:53
The bore develops a slightly ovoid dimension over time. This is in the nature of the wood. This phenomenon is more perceptible in less dense woods. Some bores are offset slightly during the process of making the bore or the sockets. This is more noticeable with taper bores and with hand reaming.
Rotating the barrel will indeed disclose a "sweet spot."
Disclaimer: I make and sell barrels.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-09-10 21:19
Allan (and others who have dabbled more or less in barrel making),
Have you noticed this ovoid shape regardless of material? I know there are a few barrel makers out there using hard rubber and other non-wood materials (even metal such as the power barrel!). personally I've only tried Tom Ridenour's barrels (on his lyrique and I've also swapped them with very favorable results on other horns), Muncy Diamond, and I tried to use a Robert Scott barrel but it was too loose a fit for my mouthpiece so I didn't get a chance to propery try it.
Wondering if these other materials form that same shape. Or if it is inherently "more stable" (as I suspect and as it's usually advertised) and so little changes are done to it through your breath and daily humidity that it doesn't matter how you turn it, it'll always sound the same.
Alexi
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-09-10 21:53
The ovoid effect is caused by the shrinkage of the wood which is not linear in the 3 planes of the wood (i.e. diameters at 90deg and length.
However if the wood is really fully matured (very many years) and then allowed to rest for a long time between processes (ideally 1 or 2 years), especially the last process of reaming the final few thou then the movement of the wood should be virtually imperceptable.
I have barrels from 30 to 50+ years old that are still true to within a thou.
Of course when you see the speed at which the mass manufacturers remove wood and consider their costs in keeping the stock for a long time in process then the reason for distortion of their product is obvious.
Metal and good quality hard rubber should not move in a non-linear way after manufacture.
OK cast iron and some metals do in fact need "aging" but not the metals used in woodwind.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-09-11 01:43
To answer some of the above questions, again with the disclaimer that I make and sell (not just "dabble" in) barrels.
Some materials are more stable than others. Aged wood from a trusted source is desired.
Despite sealants, graduated boring processes, and "tincture of time," some woods do get some change in shape.*
We are talking not tenths, not hundredths, but thousandths of an inch. That's range of 0.001-0.009 of an inch and usually not more in the o.oo1-0.0055 range. You need special tools to measure this.
The average telescoping T-bar or three-point automotive bore gauge will NOT do the job.
The sliding bore measure sold by music stores only perceives the narrow diameter onto which it impacts. The diameter measured from a different spot where this piston sits can be much different.
I prefer to use a digital internal comparator of German manufacture and measure against a standard bore of 0.500+/- 0.0005 (obtainable from a metal working machinist company)
Some woods are more stable. Others are flat-out unacceptable.
Synthetics are good, but personally I do not like Delrin. I find that for me it deforms. Othes have better luck with it, but personally, I have not appreciated the few delrin barrels that I have purchased in the course of experimenting with shapes and materials. (Yes, I have at one time or another measured, celebrated, or destroyed, many barrels of my competitors).
I have used other materials, including some very attractive acrylics, etc. I did not like the sound, and some materials were resistant to taking a specific bore shape.
One exception have been a special hard rubber formulations. They must be handled in ways that are different from typical woodworking techniques, but the results are promising.
*The noted oboe expert, Symer, is alleged to have stated that a slight "banana curve" in the oboe bore enhances the sound. I am not sure if the same is true for clarinets.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2010-09-11 01:48)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-09-11 22:08
I think most barrels, and bells for that matter, have a best "sweet" spot. The placement that matches the bore of your mouthpiece and upper joint the best, lower joint for the bell. I move the barrel, or bell, just a little bit at a time and see if there is a slight difference is placement and I have found with my Backun bells and barrels that there is a sweet spot on all of them. It's possible that the listener won't hear any difference but I can tell either in the tone or at least the feeling. It is subtle of course so don't expect a miracle. I mark the spot with a tiny piece of tape so I line it up the same each time. Maybe it's all in my mind but it makes me happy and if I'm happy my wife is happy and if she's happy the kids are happy and if the kids are happy the cat's happy etc. etc. (my kids are all grown up and out of the house, but we're all still a happy bunch). It's all because I found the "sweet spot" too. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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