 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: charla
Date: 2010-08-05 14:21
I have a Buffet clarinet, serial #47457. The Buffet list shows that two models have the same number: an e12 Master Model and an Argent es. Can anyone help me straighten this out? The clarinet has silver plate keys and plays pretty well. Thanks for any help you can provide.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-08-05 15:35
Well, I think you have something of a mystery here.
The first instrument listed is designated as an "E12 Master Model" made in 1982. Because the instrument is identified as a "Master Model," I would expect that the logo on the instrument probably reads "Evette and Schaeffer Master Model" and would have had a K prefix to the serial number. (This is around the time Buffet stopped using the designation "Evette and Schaeffer" and switched to the Exx designation, which would clearly have been marked on the upper joint. As I recall, the E&S Master Model actually became the E45. AFAIK, in the early 1980's, these instruments were normally nickle plated but I could be wrong -- and read on.)
The other designation in the Buffet list is actually "Argent�es" where the question mark probably indicates that the e has some sort of accent. Babel Fish translates the french argentés to "silver plated" in English. This listing therefore refers to a silver-plated instrument made on March 20, 1979. My guess is that this is your instrument. The question that then arises is "what model is it." If it were an R13 (or any other professional model that Buffet was making at the time) made in 1979, it should have a serial number in the range 191873 - 201531. Your serial number is actually in the range for the E13 models of this period. So, while I think this is the description of your instrument, I can't tell you what model you have, at least without further information.
Can you describe the Buffet Crampon (?) logo on the upper joint? If you look below that logo can you make out anything else that might identify a model? Also, is there a letter prefix to your serial number and, if you look beneath the right-hand cluster keys on the lower joint, has some of the wood been cut out or is the joint round.
It seems odd that Buffet would have made two E13's with the same serial number but I know that there was some serial number confusion at the Buffet factory around that time. I have an R13 with a serial number that dates it to 1981. The oddity is that it has a B prefix. If I enter the serial number (without the prefix), the search engine returns two R13's. Someone at the Buffet factory told me that they inadvertently assigned the same serial numbers to two groups of R13s so they added the B prefix to distinguish instruments in the second group from the original group. I fiddled with the look-up one time and determined that the block was around 200 clarinets, if memory serves. Perhaps something similar happened to the E13's.
You might try contacting the Buffet factory. Perhaps they could tell you what model the Clarinettes Argentés actually was. If they do, please post back.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2010-08-05 15:39)
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Author: charla
Date: 2010-08-05 16:14
The logo says Buffet, Crampon and Cie, and below is carved out made in France. The barrel is round; the entire serial on both parts of the barrel is 47457 with no sign of a prefix. I may try to call and see if they can further identify. The clarinet was sold as a "pre r13." I'm also trying out new r13's and I'm not sure they're a whole lot better!
Thanks so much for your help!
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-08-05 20:27
A "pre-R13" is another possibility that I overlooked. I'm sorry. I think I have been asking the wrong questions. I let myself focus on the silver plating and the "argent" in the Buffet list and overlooked the possibility that your clarinet might predate the list. (The Buffet list of professional clarinets does not go back as far as 47457.) The lack of a K prefix and your description of the logo both strongly suggest that your instrument is a professional model made before Buffet adopted the polycylindrical bore -- sometimes referred to as a "Pre-R13" though I personally don't like that terminology. Let me try a different question. Do the throat G# and A keys each have their own two separate posts or do the keys share a post?
(FYI, from the mouthpiece to the bell, the parts of a clarinet are: mouthpiece, barrel, upper joint, lower joint, bell. Using those terms will make it easier for you to communicate with others.)
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: charla
Date: 2010-08-05 21:02
Thanks for reminding me about clarinet terminology! This is an adventure in finding the right instrument after not having played for a long time. I bought this on ebay for $600; with the addition of a moennig barrel and new mouthpiece it plays about as well as the new r13's I'm trying.
The g# and a keys are on separate posts.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2010-08-06 02:38
charla wrote:
>>"The g# and a keys are on separate posts".<<
Something's wrong with this picture. Buffet started using two separate posts for the throat G# and A keys in 1955 (with the serial number around 50.000). Your clarinet was manufactured in 1954. I've overhauled numerous Buffet clarinets with the serial number that was below 50.000 and ALL of them had one shared post for the throat G# and A keys. I just checked another Buffet that is ready for overhaul. The serial number is 495xx and it also shares a post for the throat G# and A keys.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Lee
Date: 2010-08-06 02:51
My Master Bore R13 bought new in 1954 has serial number 43516. It has the shared post for the G# and A keys. I understand some of the changes were phased in and not all changed at one time.
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Author: charla
Date: 2010-08-06 03:38
The g# is on a vertical post and the a on a horizontal one. This clarinet looks as if it's been replated and the pads are new. It looks newer than a 50's instrument, but it's clearly been taken care of. It came with a new case, a cavallaro case cover, and a funky long barrel which made it play flat in the lower register. With a new Moennig barrel it sounds good. Not quite as much power as the new r13's but certainly a nice sound.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-08-06 04:06
Charla,
At the risk of insulting your intelligence, which I do not mean nor want to do, let's make sure we're on the same page. Posts are screwed into the clarinet body. The A and G# throat keys each have a tube. The tube fits between two posts and is held in place by a rod. The rod goes through a post, then through the tube, then screws into the second post, creating a hinge for the key to pivot on. The question is, when you look at the G# and A throat keys and the way they are attached to the clarinet, do you see three posts (which is what Vytas and I both expect) or do you see four? Again, I apologize if I have insulted your intelligence here. It's just that I don't know whether you know the nomenclature or not.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: charla
Date: 2010-08-06 04:26
Jack, you can't insult my intelligence concerning clarinets. I started playing again a couple of years ago after more than a few years' hiatus. There are three posts.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-08-06 04:39
Ah, I thought that might be the case. The two keys do, therefore share a post. You have a professional Buffet made before the polycylindrical R13 (Your model is also sometimes referred to as a Pre-R13 or Master Bore model). It has a cylindrical bore and was Buffet's top-of-the-line instrument when it was made. Vytas has a lot more experience than me and a better serial number list. His date of 1954 is undoubtedly accurate. I am not surprised that you find it plays as well as or better than the new R13s you are trying. Buffet had some fine craftsmen at the time your instrument was made. The best would have worked on your model and my guess is that your model received more individual attention than the newer models. It was also probably made of the best wood available. As I mentioned earlier, the serial number look-up on the Buffet site does not go back to the date your instrument was made.
I'd still like to know more about the Clarinettes Argentés, though.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: charla
Date: 2010-08-06 04:49
Thanks so much! I'm constantly amazed at the knowledge available on the internet. Guess I'll pay this clarinet a little more respect!
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