 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-06-27 20:16
After two years of learning to play, I still have trouble making a good smooth throat G-to-throat F# when descending in the chromatic scale (can do F# to G very well when ascending this scale).
Any good hints on practicing this, or should I just do it very slowly until I can do it right, like most other hard things on the clarinet? Maybe I need to change my basic right hand position??
I'm always looking for shortcuts, but alas, there may be none when it comes to the above problem.
CarlT
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-06-27 20:21
When you move from the G to the F#, and you want the thumb of the LH and the first finger of the RH to move together: which one is in charge?
Have you thought about playing the section slowly and saying, this one move when the other one does?
Have you tried playing from throat tone Bb to the F# with rhythmic variation? Dotted eighth-sixteenth dotted eighth-sixteenth, then sixteenth-dotted eighth sixteenth-dotted eighth?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-06-27 20:21
Er...G as in "open G" (aka "no fingers on") and F# with the index finger on the first hole?
Doesn't strike me as very exotic. I'm sure I must be missing something...
The only potential problem I see is that the finger doesn't seal the hole at the same time as the "helper pad" in between the first two holes. You sure it's okay?
--
Ben
Post Edited (2010-06-27 20:42)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-06-27 20:23
Ben: if I'm reading CarlT correctly it is the alternate F# fingering.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-06-27 20:27
Tobin wrote:
> Ben: if I'm reading CarlT correctly it is the alternate F#
> fingering.
I was suspecting something along these lines as well, but the alternate F# is rather exotic - I haven't used it except for fast F/F# trills.
Then again, I too am one of the folks who can do "chromatic up" way faster than "chromatic down".
--
Ben
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-06-27 20:36
If it were only going down to the F#, I wouldn't think it would be an issue. Then ione would jsut use the LH index finger as Ben mentioned.
If you are continuing down the scale, and use the thumb plus the bottom two RH trill keys, in order to facilitate a guick progression to F natural, then it becomes more a matter of coordinating the fingers of the two hands. Time and slow practice are the best way to accomplish this.
One way to help is to play the notes as if there were a rest in between them. Example... you are playing the run using quarter notes. While practicing, insert an eighth rest between each note, and make sure that you are changing your finger positions cleanly during the time of the rests. Gradually work this out, and begin to accelerate a little, while also shortening the length of the rests between notes. Keep working until there is no longer a pause between notes, and then keep increasing he tempo to what you feel is a little faster than you NEED to play the passage.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-06-27 20:55
When going tron G to F#, press the side keys before you press the thumb. This should only be a moment before the thumb, but it is enough time to fix the problem.
The other option is the front F#, which a lot of people use.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-06-27 21:09
Practice going up and down starting on D-D#-E-F-F#-G-Gb-F-E-Eb-D-C# repeated (in groups of three or six), slowly at first then gradually increasing speed. Use the side (chromatic) F# key for both the ascending F# and descending Gb. Then start the whole sequence a semitone higher once you get that all nice and smooth, then keep starting the sequence up by a further semitone each time until the top note is throat Bb. It's a case of coordinating LH finger 1 with your RH fingers.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: djphay
Date: 2010-06-27 21:18
I was taught to use the 'standard' left hand F# even when doing a chromatic scale, I still tend to do that and only use the side key for trills, or if there is a really fast chromatic passage.
Interestingly I was at a masterclass (audience, not participating) Sharon Kam gave to Scottish Academy students, where she told one student that she uses the upper register trill key C# to avoid needing to break into the altissimo in certain passages where otherwise she wouldn't need to go into altissimo.
David
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-06-27 21:23
I believe that GBK stated a few years ago that the preferred descending chromatic fingering is to "flip" between first finger F# and thumb F natural.
Since then, I've found that, depending upon what comes before or after that using alternative fingerings for both the bottom space and top line F/F# is the way to go.
Try the Chris P exercise, but play the F#/Gb with the left forefinger.
Work it an octave higher and play the F#/Gb with the right middle finger.
Start slow, there's a lot of habit burned into your playing.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-06-27 21:24
"Interestingly I was at a masterclass (audience, not participating) Sharon Kam gave to Scottish Academy students, where she told one student that she uses the upper register trill key C# to avoid needing to break into the altissimo in certain passages where otherwise she wouldn't need to go into altissimo."
And also with the Bb (or lower) trill key or throat G# key (depending which has the best tuning) for a high D instead of going into the altissimo.
In the low register I very often use both trill keys with the throat A key for an isolated B instead of going over the break, and likewise for throat Bb to an isolated C as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-06-27 21:26)
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-06-27 22:05
Jeff and Tobin had it right...I want to continue down to F, E, etc., therefore, the need for alternate fingering of F#.
Wow, so many good ideas. I will try each, and I know one, or more, will work for me. I so appreciate it.
I sometimes am just amazed at the help I get from this BB.
CarlT
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Author: William
Date: 2010-06-27 22:54
I read that Robert Marcellus required his students to play all F# 4's with the lh forefinger instead of the thumb/two side keys alternate, even in the chromatic scale. Perhaps Greg Smith can elaborate on this. In any case, I have learned to execute smoothly with either fingering--it's not too hard to do with a consistant, every day practice routine in place.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-06-27 23:16
I have just recently sent myself into a period of re- re- re- discovery on this very topic. Marcellus' justification is that he prefered maintaining a note in one hand if at all possible. I have for many MANY years been using the side key alternate in MOST situations and have found re-teaching myself the standard fingering a bothersome task. There are rewards to having both within your ability depending on the notes before and after this sequence in a given pattern.
The "sister" to this issue is whether to use the fork or just flip from first to second finger in the RIGHT hand. I suppose in both cases the real advantage to the STANDARD fingers is that your fingers maintains a rock solid attitude above their respective tone holes. Using the fork or side key alternates forces the fingers to deviate slightly to make that happen.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: GBK
Date: 2010-06-27 23:22
Bob phillips wrote:
> I believe that GBK stated a few years ago that the
> preferred descending chromatic fingering is to "flip"
> between first finger F# and thumb F natural
The reason that Robert Marcellus was dogmatic about teaching his students to flip between first finger and thumb F# was once stated clearly by David Hattner (a Marcellus student) in a posting when he wrote:
"...In real life, generally you are either going from somewhere or to somewhere from f or f#. Getting off of two side keys while slurring to, say, throat A or A flat is going to cause problems compared to coming from first finger f#..."
A good example would be to try and play through Baermann III without "flipping". It literally cannot be done. Now try playing through Baermann III using only the two side keys for F# and you'll see that there are no passages where it is absolutely necessary.
Sure - you can use the two side key F# for a smooth legato passage, but if you rely on it exclusively for all circumstances, eventually you will run into trouble.
...GBK
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