 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-02-02 23:45
Has any one out there ever played a Plateau clarinet? The Plateau, as you may be aware, has saxophone pads to cover the clarinet holes. This is to presumably lesson the squeek from incorrectly covered holes.
I ask this because I have a price coming on a Vito model. The cost would be signifcant because I`m the other side of the world.
The up-side if it works is obvious, but is there a down-side?
Thanks Russ
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2008-02-03 00:02
The plateau-keyed clarinets were available on the Normandy, Noblet and at one time the Leblanc LL instruments. I have a Normandy that I got from Clarinet Perfection that is kind of fun. I too though thought it would help me, a predominantly sax player. But I still prefer my R-13.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-02-03 00:50
Ronish wrote:
> The Plateau, as you may be aware, has saxophone pads to
> cover the clarinet holes. This is to presumably lesson
> the squeek from incorrectly covered holes.
These were also made for
1. the young student with small hands
2. adults who have trouble covering the tone holes due to injury, arthritis, weak hand muscles, etc...
A few years ago I was given a set of R13's from the widow of a clarinetist., The Bb and A had both been retrofitted with plateau keys in the upper joint and longer LH pinky keys to accomodate the left hand injury he had suffered late in life.
They tech work was elaborate, but permitted him to play clarinet in his later years...GBK
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-02-03 01:20
skygardener wrote:
> GBK- How do they sound in comparison with regular R13s??
That was the surprising part.
Other than the thumb F (1st space) which is stuffy and flat, the rest of the notes are fairly clear and seem to project normally. I assume that can probably be fixed with a thinner pad or changing some key heights.
I have never used the clarinet in a rehearsal or concert setting, just in my studio to test it. However the sound seems fairly normal.
It makes a great conversation piece to show other clarinetists and students ...GBK
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-02-03 03:17
Do you press down on top of the pad or is there a sort of swing lever that activates the pad motion?
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-02-03 15:42
I think that plateau clarinets are too often overlooked. Some thoughts.
A colleague, a great swing band clarinetist, suffered a late life stroke. He could play his tenor sax competently thereafter, but could not find the clarinet tone holes with his fingers. Too embarrassed to track down a plateau clarinet, he simply left the clarinet riffs to other players.
I had a young student who could not cover the tone holes of a Bb clarinet with her tiny fingers. We started her on an Effer.
Another colleague is having trouble reaching the open tone holes on her flute and is using inexpensive silicone rubber plugs in a few holes to help her get around the developing arthritis in her hands. Commonly available for flute, we have no such aids in clarinetting.
Playing glissandos --as in The American in Paris seems impossible on a plateau horn, but I heard the bass clarinetist in the Pacific Symphonic Wind Ensemble (Vancouver, BC) play an impressive gliss during ClarinetFest this year.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-02-03 19:41
Hi Rosish - You have V G discussions above which should answer most questions. I'm the ?proud" owner of 2 ! Plateau Normandys, given to me to supply to small-fingered beginners etc as needed. I have both playing quite well and as GBK said, the sound/playing is quite "normal" with sufficient venting [pad rise] where fuzzy notes are found, Repair and set-up is a bit more complex, sim. to plateaued alto and bass cls, and "inter-locking" pads in the stacks, as well as having more pads of course. As Sherman F pointed out in another thread, the presence of a thumb pad [with adequate rise] gives an unexpected/unappreciated CLEAR "pinch" Bb, approaching the clarity of the A + trill utilized by Mazzeo and others !!! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-03 19:59
It's a shame I never bought my sax teacher's plateau keyed clarinets (both in Bb) when he offered them to me around twenty years ago (£300 for them both) - one was a Couesnon and the other was an Italian one, one of which had pearl finger buttons.
I worked on a Jaques Albert plateaux clarinet a few years back (all unplated nickel silver keys) - the F# and open G were stuffy, so I shortened the thumb plate underlever to get more venting (and cork padded it) which cleared it up.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-02-03 21:18
I've overhauled two plateau clarinets, a wood Noblet and a metal "Guy Humphrey". In the end both played OK, but no better. Both slightly stuffy (even though I set the pad heights pretty high), tone rather neutral and lacking in character, and so-so intonation. Your mileage may vary, etc.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-03 21:24
"tone rather neutral and lacking in character, and so-so intonation. Your mileage may vary, etc."
Could that be down to the countersunk and smaller diameters of the main action toneholes not offering the same kind of resistance as chimneys?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-02-04 03:27
I just bought from you guys over the water Selmer Bundy Bb Plateau clarinet. Did`nt cost much on Ebay but was talked up as in good nick and comes from a seller with a good record. What troubles me a bit tho` is that any repairers here will never have seen one.
I suppose there are special pads for these instruments, or can regular clarinet or sax pads be adapted (or used)? Russ
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-02-04 03:54
They SHOULD use standard clarinet pads (skin or leather) with no trouble, but you will have to find someone with a selection of sizes (diameters) to fit the extra seven pad cups. All other pads are the same as on a regular Bundy, but sax pads are way too thick.
I didn't realise Bundy made plateaux models.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-03-17 08:31
Well this Bundy only comes with plateau pads for the 3rd finger left hand and the thumb key. Would have liked one tho` for 3rd. finger right hand. Also what is interesting is that all the plateau keys have a hole in the plate which extends thru` the pad. I guess for extra venting. I`ve blocked this off tho because one needed to precisely cover this vent hole or else the clarinet squeeked. The need to do this seems to me to defeat the advantage of plateau keys. Still sounds OK.
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Author: ned
Date: 2008-03-17 08:56
''We started her on an Effer''
I have always found this an interesting musical colloquialism. So is a Bb clarinet a ''beefer''? Maybe an R13 could be nicknamed a ''reefer''?
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Author: Jkelly32562
Date: 2008-03-17 19:05
Do the plateau keys affect fork fingerings and half holes in the altissimo?
Jonathan Kelly
jkelly32562@troy.edu
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-03-17 20:35
YES J K, it defeats them, but the 1 and 1 Eb/Bb is still there, assuming the bridge is properly adjusted. This is for Leblanc's STUDENT plateaus, I'm not acquainted with any more-pro plateaus mentioned above. The left hand 1 and 3 on my Selmer bass cl is not a fork, but I frequently use the 1 and 1, it does have a "Half-hole" for alt, but thats the realm of the sop cls !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Wes
Date: 2008-03-18 22:45
Yes, I did extensive work on a Vito plateau clarinet for an older trumpet player who felt it could be easier for him to play. It was a lot more time-consuming than I had expected.
That instrument was poorly finished in the factory and the design was
partly the problem. The plateau keys were not easy to adjust, although this is somewhat the case also for alto, basset horn, and bass clarinets as well. Good luck!
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2008-03-25 16:03
My Malerne Professional Bb plateau is wonderful. I've got 2 wooden Noblet plateaux and a few others but the Malerne is easily the best. The Noblet mechanism takes a few short cuts in comparison - and I do find them a bit stuffy - but fiddling about with mouthpieces and reeds usually improves them a lot. I saw a Metal Noblet plateau on offer recently - but alas missed the highest bid!
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2009-12-22 08:24
Just really for the collection rather than a particular need (though must think of a particularl need quickly as an excuse to my wife...) I have bought a Normandy Plateau clarinet - in excellent condition.
Just reviving an old thread, as a search revealed nothing to specifically answer my question - which is:
While there is much discussion about changing the venting or using thinner pads to improve tone, I can find no reference to what people have actually found their optimal venting to be for their instruments
Of those out there with what they feel is a plateau model with good tone, could you post what your adjusted various important venting distances are?
Chris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-22 16:31
Set the RH main action so the C vent pad is around 2.5-3mm - this will give plenty of opening on the main action fingerplates. Set the LH3 pad to open between 2.5-3mm as well.
Set the LH1 pad to open around 2.5mm and if you can't get the thumbplate open enough, shorten the underlever (the one connected to the thumbplate - NOT the overlever from the G vent pad cup) to give more venting for the thumb F#.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2009-12-22 22:55
Chris
Thanks for that, I will check how that compares with current venting when I get home
Chris
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-12-23 08:48
I have two question regarding plateau clarinets....some things I've been wondering and I figured I'd keep it in this general "plateau clarinet" knowledge thread...
1) I know that saxophones can actually have slight leaks in the pads and they will still play and it won't be that noticeable unless you specifically test for leaks.
Will this also be the case with a plateau clarinet? A small part of me thinks that it might be the leather sax pads that allow this. They might still create a seal where the bladder pads, once torn/ripped, will not. The other part of me thinks it's because of the sheer physical SIZE of the venting holes in a sax. And with larger holes, comes a larger tolerance for error. Just something I've been wondering. If one is stuffy or not quite right, could it just be that there's a slight leak in certain notes but not enough of a leak to STOP the note from playing, or squeak?
2) With a pad that goes onto the chimneys instead of your finger, would scratches, chips, nicks on the chimney have a much bigger effect than if you were sealing it with the pad of your finger (much more soft and conforming)? And would there be extra maintenance, or preventative maintenance that would help that?
I don't have a plateau clarinet, nor do I intend on getting one soon, but I'm just thirsty for some knowledge.
Alexi
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-12-23 09:27
For what it's worth, I recently repaired some standard Bb clarinet. Some of the pads were shot beyond recognition, no more skin, just the bare felt. Yet the clarinet played just fine. I wouldn't employ the word "stellar", but I was perfectly able to play the usual tunes on it. Of course, the instrument failed the leak test miserably.
What does that mean? Neither the human finger nor a grainy leather pad will provide a truly airtight seal. IMO this isn't necessary, it suffices that the padding material provides a "good enough" seal, whatever that means. But do lower your LH ring finger on the tonehole, slooooowly, and listen what happens to the tone when the finger is close enough to the tone hole.
I think that a very long tonehole chimney or a sufficiently tight hole will have the same effect as a perfectly sealed tonehole - it wont make the vibrating air column collapse at that point.
--
Ben
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