 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: otakua
Date: 2009-08-18 23:24
Im just wondering out of curiosity, is there a list on which fingerings are more appropriate to use in general? I know that my teacher tells me never to use some of the fingerings written in books i have, but I'm wondering when its okay to use certain fingerings that are cheating a little. For example, I have a pretty fast run going from B-C#-D (above the staff). Is it okay to leave off the pinky? I usually dont use fingerings like that if the sound quality is effected, but it doesnt seem to be, just a slight change in tuning, which for me is better actually because it makes it slightly more in tune ^^.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-08-18 23:29
otakua wrote:
> I know that
> my teacher tells me never to use some of the fingerings written
> in books i have,
Never? Not ever? Or did your teacher say (or mean) "not yet"?
"Never" is a harsh and forbidding word - and while some fingerings may be inappropriate for many cases, they may be useful in just one case - and then "never" fades away.
"Not yet" might be appropriate, I don't know.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-19 00:00
I generally always leave off the pinky for those notes. The pinky just sharpens the notes because altissimo notes (especially above D) tend to go flat. Usually D's and C#'s aren't that flat to begin with, so you may not need the pinky at all for these notes. (Indeed, it sounds like you probably *ought* to leave the pinky off these couple notes to keep them in tune)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-08-19 00:01
Speaking of forbidden, if the run is very fast, I would play the "C#" with just the index finger and the "D" completely open.
It works.
My favorite alternate fingering memory is when I faced the Nielsen with great fear and John Yeh said, "The Nielsen is easy. It's all fake fingers."
................Paul Aviles
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2009-08-19 00:05
I agree with Mark about this. I tell my students that they should usually use the first fingering shown on their fingering charts as those are mostly the standard fingering. Then, as they progress, we discover that the alternate fingerings work better for certain passages.
With your example, yes, you can leave off the pinky on the Eb key for the high D (I think that is what you meant), but realize that you may need it for better intonation on the high D if the notes are longer in duration. I usually tell my students to leave it on because they need to get used to using it. Then, we find places in music where it makes sense to alter the fingering.
If the answer from your teacher is "not yet", then pay attention!
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-19 00:52
There is no such thing as a "fake" fingering. Is it better that you don't play the passage in tempo or slop through it because you have to use the "correct" fingerings? I don't think so. I teach every fingering I know when it is appropriate for the passage. There are times that you have to play a note slightly out of tune because there simply is no other way to fit it in the passage. When you're playing fast enough and support properly no one can tell. Daphnis and Chloe is a perfect example, there are some tutti passages that almost everyone uses "false or fake" fingerings. I call them "alternate" fingers because there are times in everyones life that you just have to use them. Learn them all but be discriminating when you use them.
Check my website, I have a good, at least I think so, fingering chart that includes trills and tremolos as well. They work for me. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2009-08-19 02:36
"My favorite alternate fingering memory is when I faced the Nielsen with great fear and John Yeh said, 'The Nielsen is easy. It's all fake fingers.' "
That's so awesome, and so true. Great quote!
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Author: otakua
Date: 2009-08-19 04:42
Thanks for all your input. My teacher just basically said, we rarely use certain fingerings, because the alternatives are better (alternatives are usually the common fingerings). But she usually makes me keep the pinky on when doing scales. Is there a site with all these "fake fingerings"? or a post or something. Im curious, I do play around a lot and figure out each notes pitch tendancies, well I have a chart for that too. Sometimes I like using fingerings only used in trills... but ya. Thanks ^^
Edit: Ya sorry, I magically missed Ed's post, but any other tips are welcome ^^
Post Edited (2009-08-19 04:48)
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-19 05:05
otakua wrote:
> Is
> there a site with all these "fake fingerings"? or a post or
> something.
As a matter of fact, yes...
http://www.wfg.woodwind.org
Another good resource is Tom Ridenour's book on clarinet fingerings, which gives descriptions of the characteristics of different fingerings (mostly altissimo) and suggested uses.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-08-19 09:00
On some clarinets, mainly large bore Selmers, B&H 1010 and Eaton Elites (and I suspect the 1010 bore Rossi), you don't need to open the Ab/Eb key for the high D.
Watch Gino Cioffi not using the Ab/Eb for the high D at 3:25 in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNSeBwy4qGw
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-08-19 09:01)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-08-19 09:42
Hey Chris,
I believe I recall from my 1010 days that the extra vent key on the lower joint gives you a perfectly good "Eb" with just the middle finger.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-08-19 11:33
Indeed the Acton vent on the 1010 definitely makes the top Eb fingering much simpler (oxx|oxo Ab/Eb) than the standard fingering (oxx|xo,o Ab/Eb), and it's also a well tuned Eb with this fingering unlike clarinets without it fitted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-08-19 14:24
I've lifted this from Jack Brymer's book, and I think this is one of the most profound statements with regard to clarinet playing:
"Any fingering is good enough for any note, provided it produces the note. ... for a clarinettist is to be an inventor of clarinet fingerings."
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-08-19 14:24)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-08-20 06:38
If someone tells you a fingering is fobiden then you can just give them the finger....ing.
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Author: 2E
Date: 2009-08-20 06:46
I recall practising the A clarinet part for Stravinskys Firebird (1919) for ages trying to work out how on earth to get it up to tempo. (I'm referring to the 6/8 scherzo like movement 3, played on Eb in the 1910 ballet version). I took it to my teacher who showed me a whole bunch of alternate fingerings that make the passages so much easier. Most notably the first finger high C# and open D fingerings along with trilling from clarion F# to G# using the first finger of the left hand. These helped a great deal and so if an alternate fingering suits a certain passage - use it!
2E.
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Author: Vrat
Date: 2009-08-20 10:18
Any coments on Michele Gingras' fingering of F#6, G6, and G#6?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36r-8Jyklro&feature=related
(Sorry, I don't know how to insert a link.)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-08-20 10:28
I've had funny looks from players when using the side Eb/Bb key on a G-A trill instead of trilling with LH3, and lower D-E and upper A-B trills by trilling with LH1 (which works best on large bore clarinets - doesn't work so well on R13s), also using the top joint trill keys for a throat A-B and Bb-C trill (how else are you meant to do these?) - even using the Bb trill key for a better throat Bb because I'm 'not using the correct fingering'.
I'm not using the fingerings found in basic fingering charts which are only a guide, but I'm using fingerings that work for me. So long as the notes are there, who cares what fingerings you use?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-20 15:43
Vrat wrote:
<<Any coments on Michele Gingras' fingering of F#6, G6, and G#6?>>
I use those quite a bit. The G is a little awkward at times, but the F# and G# are very useful.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-20 17:07
mrn, I've posted it several time before. My website has fingerings charts of the high notes with many alternative fingerings for the upper register as well as a chart of trills. It's free for the looking. There's a clarinet chart as well as a bass clarinet chart. Don't have to buy a thing. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-08-20 17:20
Ed Palanker wrote:
> mrn, I've posted it several time before. My website has
> fingerings charts of the high notes with many alternative
> fingerings for the upper register as well as a chart of trills.
> It's free for the looking. There's a clarinet chart as well as
> a bass clarinet chart. Don't have to buy a thing. ESP
> http://eddiesclarinet.com
Or just stay right here and go to http://www.wfg.woodwind.org. While the person who used to keep this updated isn't around anymore, the fingerings still are. The site is being straightened out internally.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-08-20 19:52
Ed P wrote:
<<mrn, I've posted it several time before. My website has
> fingerings charts......Don't have to buy a thing.>>
I prefer free, too. That's why I first posted a link to the WFG site hosted here. Your site's a good resource, too, though. I'm sorry I didn't mention it, too.
The only reason I mentioned Ridenour's book was that it contains descriptive text to go along with most of the fingerings and gives suggested uses. Sometimes I find that helpful in figuring out which fingerings to try first in a given situation. I bought the book when I was in college (before WFG and other free online resources existed--and before I knew anything about Tom Ridenour, for that matter), but I still use it, and it's still usually the first place I look, so I thought it was worth mentioning as well.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-21 00:23
I know that the fingerings on my charts will not be good for all makes and models of clarinets but I went through many fingering charts over the years updating the ones I wrote. I used to go through them every year with my students editing out those that were so out of tune that they really weren't useful. I have found that so many charts have far to many fingerings that simply are way to out of tune so I try to put only those that are at least close to being useful on my charts. When someone puts 20 fingerings for a note and half of them are 1/4 tone sharp or flat then why bother? But, one has to remember it also depends on how one voices and supports and what kind of mouthpiece and reed strength they use. ESP
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