 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: libraman
Date: 2008-11-04 04:58
Does anyone know the difference between original R-13 and the Greenline one? I'm going to buy one soon. Thanks in advance.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-11-04 05:30
The Buffet R13 is made either in Grenadilla or Greenline material.
There is no consensus on either the similarity or difference in sound...GBK
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-11-04 06:15
On plastic clarinets, the body shrinks in cold and keys can bind between pillars.
Is this also a problem for the Greenline material?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-04 07:27
Greenlines are fine provided you don't drop them or knock them over.
"On plastic clarinets, the body shrinks in cold and keys can bind between pillars. Is this also a problem for the Greenline material?"
Give me a couple of hours and I'll tell you.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2008-11-04 12:47
Since the middle tenon strength seems to be a point of concern in Greenlines, why not make the body in one piece? Aren't there acoustic/tuning reasons for that being a better design anyway?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-11-04 12:55
I heard that the Greenline is harder on cutting tools, but I imagine they still use mostly (or all) the same machines and methods for making the Greenline. Making it in one piece would probably mean they need to change tools/methods a little or a lot and the clarinet would be more expensive (or they would need to raise the price of all their clarinets because of that). There are a few advantages for a one piece body but personally I prefer the advantages of a two piece body.
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Author: libraman
Date: 2008-11-04 13:57
Thank you for every opinion. I'm still waiting for more information.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-11-04 20:49
Hello,
(disclaimer-I'm a Buffet artist)
I play on a Greenline quite a lot and feel that the sound is actually darker than a wooden clarinet. Of course, darkness is hard to define, but that's my opinion. I think they play very well and, in fact, when I was ready to purchase a new clarinet about 13 years ago, the Greenline was the best clarinet in the room of all that I tested, so I bought it and played it as my number one clarinet for many years.
I think that the concerns over the Greenlines breaking at the tenons are a bit unfounded. Sure, the material will break if it's stressed too much, but I think that people probably treat the Greenlines a bit more harshly because they are made of a material that is not completely wood. If one would treat the clarinet with the care they use to treat a wooden clarinet, it will not break.
I think that the Buffet Crampon Company is the only company to use environmentally friendly practices to create these instruments and thus should be applauded for this effort. Was this an economic decision? Perhaps, but nonetheless, they were the only company to react to the impending shortage of the Mpingo tree, many years before "going green" was in vogue.
The next time I purchase a new clarinet, I'll definitely concentrate my testing on the Greenline instruments.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-11-04 22:29
"Was this an economic decision? "
Well of course it was and using the word "green" was a marketing decision aimed at those who believe it has meaning.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-11-05 08:01
I recall that the Greenline felt slightly heavier. In theory you can take it to the jungle or the desert or the arctic and it'll keep on playing... good if your profession takes you overseas at all :-)
The man in the shop explained that the French government had demanded 10% waste recycling from all businesses, which left Buffet with an embarrasingly large pile of expensive sawdust. Any truth in that, do you think?
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-11-06 16:09
I always found the greenline clarinets to have too much edge and harshness for orchestral work.
David Dow
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-11-06 16:25
libraman:
I own both a wooden RC and a greenline RC. I have absolutely no reservation in recommending the greenline.
If you are so set on the R13 that this the only instrument you will consider, my main advice to you is to try as many clarinets as you can both greenline and wood, and pick the one that is:
1- Best in tune when *you* play it.
2- Most comfortable to *you*
We can argue all we want about the sonic differences of clarinet A. vs clarinet B., but a clarinet a tad too dark or a tad too bright with an even scale is oh so much better than your ideal sounding instrument that is out of tune.
If you don't have access to a lot of clarinet, it is worth spending a little extra $$ to use the services of someone who can preselect a few instruments for you.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-06 19:22
Sorry people - I forgot to experiment on a Greenline to see if the keywork bound up when it's cold. When another one comes my way (which will probably be fairly soon!) I'll try it.
Though anyone on here with a Greenline can carry out the experiment themselves - put the joints in plastic bags and place them in the fridge for about an hour. Then take them out and check the keys still operate. The keys most likely to bind up in the cold are the LH F/C key and the RH low E/B key. Then let us know your findings.
The biggest problems I've found with Greenlines (besides the vulnerable middle tenon) is the tenons binding in the sockets, and getting them to fit takes far longer than wooden clarinets due to the hardness of the material.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-11-08 12:54
I have no reservsations in reccommending the Greenline for solo and band use ..I myself find the tone a bit strident, however others players can make them sound very nice. As for quality these clarinet I think are super and of course will not crack ever. Unless dropped....
David Dow
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Author: libraman
Date: 2008-11-22 19:07
Thank you very much for all your opinions. I know that I should try as many clarinets as I can. However I just wonder that why the greenline in my country is much cheaper than the wooden one (about USD400).
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2008-11-22 21:26
Testing a Greenline:
1) Take it to the local batting cage and hit 100 fast pitch balls. If still intact, proceed to step 2.
2) Take it to the driving range and hit a bucket of balls. If you can drive the ball consistently over 100 yards, proceed to step 3.
3) Go to your local pool hall and challenge the big guy with the tattoos and the Harley Davidson T shirt to a game with you using the Greenline as your cue. If you win, proceed to step 4.
4) Put your favorite mouthpiece and reed on and play a C major scale.
If it still works and the tenon is not broken, you have a winner. Call the shop and let them know that you intend to keep the clarinet and they can now charge your credit card.
Hope that helps.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-11-22 21:52
Libraman, who has posted from both Japan and Thailand, asked:
"However I just wonder that why the greenline in my country is much cheaper than the wooden one (about USD400)."
In England, they are usually the same price. I can think of two possible reasons why the Greenline might be cheaper than the wooden instrument in some countries:
1) Someone imported a large number of Greenlines, thinking they would be popular; however they have not been and now he is desperate to sell them.
2) The wooden instruments may tend to crack in storage in certain climates, so dealers don't want to stock them.
I find it difficult to believe that cracking is a huge problem in Japan, which has a temperate climate not greatly different to that of Western Europe. If it were a problem, I think Yamaha would have produced a Greenline equivalent.
Thailand might be a different matter.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2008-11-23 09:38
<I recall that the Greenline felt slightly heavier. >
Mine weighs two ounces more than my Series 10.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-11-23 23:28
It is my understanding that the Greenline is 90% Granadilla wood from saw dust and 10% epoxy formed into the shape of a clarinet. It is also my understanding that it will not crack because it won’t expand and contract. The bore and the outer body remains the same at all times. I’ve tried some of them and found them a bit brighter than the all wood R13 but found them very well made. Pretty much the same as the regular R13s other than the brilliance. A regular wood clarinet can crack anywhere, any time in any climate, or not. There could be a weak spot in any piece of wood that can cause a crack when it expands or contracts or goes from wet to dry. I’ve owned clarinets for over forty years, and one for three years, never had a crack on any of them. Sometimes it’s the luck of the draw, or the way you care for them. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
Listen to a little Mozart, live performance.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-11-24 16:13
It's difficult to determine just what materials are used for the Green Line. From the current Buffet website:
1. Body of 95% granulated Grenadilla and 5% polycarbonate with epoxy resin
2. Silver keywork
3. 95% ebony powder with carbon fibre
Bob Draznik
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-11-24 19:20
80 % sawdust
10% epoxy
1% carbon fiber
9% crud
(Just an educated guess!) ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-11-24 21:45
There's an old Pennsylvania German saying that "You can't make chicken soup out of chicken sxxx". However, the fact is that you can. I suppose they remove the natural wood oils from the granulated "grenadilla" since they would hinder the adhesion of the epoxy.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-11-24 23:49
Just played out in 40 degree (fahrenheit) and no shrinkage at all. Funny, I was wondering what would happen independent of this thread.
They are great horns and pretty indestructable really. Personally I have wooden horns that I like better for projection and resonance but the difference is not huge enough when you need a clarinet as durable (for varying weather conditions) as a tank.
..............Paul Aviles
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