 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2009-10-25 15:11
Hi, mrn, if you are within radar- our brief exchanges recently about side Bb and the finger bending corrections that you use (tried it and can only just manage it) prompted me to disappear into the workroom and bring into the real world an idea that has been festering for some time.
I emerged clutching an attachment that can be fixed and removed in minutes (on my B12 ) without damaging or altering the instrument..... that allows me to play the RH side Bb using the normal LH thumb and first finger "pincer" movement- and leaving the right hand free to do any shading one might wish.
It also does not affect the normal playing of the clarinet in any way.
Having checked it out, I removed it for two reasons-
1). in the normal rough and tumble, I am reasonably happy with the Bb on the B12, and will use the side key on the few occasions when it is required (mostly without shading).
2). to complete the job properly, it would be best to add a simple drilled pillar for additional support, and I would only go to this length if absolutely sure that I wanted it to be permanent.
To all....... has this problem been tackled by any maker? I have a recollection of seeing photos of a Selmer solution that was abandoned because it could not be kept in proper adjustment. (mine requires no adjustment once set up).
Has the problem not been attacked in a keywork manner because the "gain" is not sufficiently great?
Glad to hear any views..... H n' P.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-10-25 17:07
I looked at this briefly when working with an instrument maker. The main problem I saw was that the mechanism operating side Bb on most clarinets relies on a very long lever pivoted on a relatively weak and wear prone concentric bearing. (The older French Leblancs are significantly better in this respect with their separate bearing for the 2 trill keys).
To make a reliable mechanism really requires a decent key bearing close to the tonehole and a linkage between this and the side lever (think of the way the Bb/F crosskey is mounted on lower joint for instance). Nothing impossible for a skilled designer/craftsman but not of much interest for mainstream manufacturers.
Incidentally on my 1960 Leblancs the throat Bb is virtually same quality as the side Bb, with or without resonance fingers, so it can be done.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-10-25 19:01
huff n' puff -
Selmer has had two Bb improvement mechanisms, the 1950s Omega and the Mazzeo. Please put up a photo so we can see what you did.
Thanks.
Ken Shaw
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-10-25 20:08
Hi H n' P. William Stubbins invented what he called the "SK" mechanism to do something somewhat similar to what you've done with that Bb. He introduced a second tonehole, however, rather than opening the existing side key tonehole. (You can look up his U.S. Patent at http://www.pat2pdf.org if you type in 2,508,550 as the patent number.)
If you think people might want to buy your mechanism as an aftermarket product, you might want to consider patenting it, as Stubbins did, in which case you definitely don't want to post a picture or any other description of it here until you have a patent application filed. (because it may make it difficult or even impossible for you to obtain a patent--that's *especially* true if you're outside the U.S., and I seem to remember that you are).
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-10-25 20:33
Many Alto and Bass clarinets as well as German Oehler system ones have already incorporate perfectly satisfactory "improved Bb" mechanisms but these all require extensive and relatively complicated additions to the instrument.
It's introduction to the mainstream of Boehm soprano clarinets is inhibited mainly by 1) cost 2) perceived complexity/reliability issues 3) clarinetists general reluctance to embrace major modifications (as opposed to gismos).
My understanding was that H n' P attempt (and mine some years ago) was to solve this using existing toneholes and minimal mechanical change.
That's remains a laudable objective if anyone can crack it.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-10-26 22:08
I already have an excellent Bb on my Full Boehm Amati Klaslice Bb & A instruments. It is the bottom Eb extension. By using this + the speaker key + the side Ab/G# key I get a wonderful full bodied Bb and nicely in tune. The thing is I didn't wake up to this possibility until I had these instruments for some time. On the down side the note seems to be a little slower in sounding on the A than on the Bb but still very usable.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2009-10-26 22:18)
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2009-11-06 10:31
Hi, and thanks for your observations and advice. Delay in replying due to domestics and MOT. (gotit).
I don't want to make too much out of what started as a bit of fun and an interesting challenge. Surely out of the thousands of techs out there over the decades someone must have tried something similar.
Saw the Omega photos and the SK patent application, and it does seem to me that there are essentially two approaches.............
(1). to devise an unacceptably complex mechanism to ALWAYS play the good Bb without affecting the normal fingerings. I wouldn't be surprised to find that this has been proved to be impossible (but that won't stop ingenious persons from trying).
(2). As I did- to create a simple means of playing the good left hand Bb ONLY when required with the least demand on brain resources while playing. To me, that means only when a sustained or exposed Bb is required, and not in a scale or arpeggio.
I still find the RH side key awkward, as the clarinet is often off-balance and unstable - OK for the odd trill and mordant.
I have only one simple decision to make-......... compare this with the multiple choices one makes before playing a chalumeau Eb.
Enough for now......... the patent business is another can of worms...... maybe there is a Dummy's guide to patent applications? maybe the Dragon's den? is it worth it? Who knows...... H.n' P.
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