 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2008-06-27 22:28
Hello again,
I'm wondering if any of you more experienced players have any tips or tricks to catching or remembering the ever-changing key signatures in musicals. It's so easy to blast through a key change when they're changing every other line.
Once I've played through it half a dozen times it becomes easier, but I'm jumping in a little late in the game on this show and I'll be playing my first rehearsal tomorrow. Obviously I'll be spending the afternoon/evening practicing, but I could use any tips you can offer to minimize looking (sounding) foolish for the first rehearsal.
Thanks!
Michelle
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-06-27 22:36
(bear in mind that we're allowed to scribble on our parts)
I simply paint blue and green circles around all flat and sharp notes, accidentals and per-key. It's part of my prep routine when I'm given a new sheet.
--
Ben
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-06-28 01:07
If I think I might blow through a key-change, I mark in the accidentals for the first few bars after it to set the new key in my mind. (A little easier to clean up than Ben's approach. )
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-06-28 03:40
This is one of the many reasons complete scale/key signature knowledge is necessary to perform well.
Why not play through the scales that correspond to the keys to accustom yourself to the changes?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: davidsampson
Date: 2008-06-28 03:59
I think the problem is not so much in knowing how to play the keys, it's remembering/seeing where they are. In which case my advice would be to circle the key changes vigorously, and maybe write in accidentals for a few measures.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-06-28 04:35
"circle the key changes vigorously, and maybe write in accidentals for a few measures."
Please, please, please......use a soft lead pencil--NEVER INK--and completely erase ALL of your markings as you go through your last show. It is no fun to get a book that has all sorts of markings that may have no relevance to the performance I am hired to play. [thank you very kindly]
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-06-28 04:45
"Why not play through the scales that correspond to the keys to accustom yourself to the changes?"
In many shows, that would mean practicing all the scales because they all turn up sometime. Also, in many books, particularly the older ones that are copied manuscript, the key change is notated when it occurs (often in the middle of a line) but never repeated at the beginning of subsequent lines so it takes a lot of focus to keep track of the key you're playing in and, if you forget, it's not easy to find a point of reference to remind you.
Personally, BTW, people who circle key changes vigorously drive me crazy because they invariably manage to obliterate nearby notes (or the new key signature) and they never seem to erase their books. And I hope there is a special hell for people who mark their books in ink. ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-06-28 06:14
Hello Jack,
I agree about the aggressive over-circling of details that (eventually from performing enough) you learn to read naturally.
I was speaking specifically to Michelle's question about how to adjust quickly to music that changes quickly. Just as it is useful to young musicians to play the scale which corresponds to the piece they are working on, perhaps playing though the key changes of the piece she is attempting to master quickly would allow her to anticipate the changes.
Yes, those who compose for musicals could care less whether we're in easy keys or not. Yes, we should all know our keys and scales.
Yes, marking in the accidentals for a measure or two will help.
But Michelle appears to be uncomfortable with the frequency of the changes (and has little time to adjust). So this is just one suggestion to help compensate (aside from just saying learn the part).
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-06-28 10:50
Ben,
How often have you worked in the pit for a musical show? I can't imagine having a conductor allow you to "scribble" on rental orchestra parts.
Most of the guys I work for in the 3 or 4 shows I do each year provide large erasers before and after the shows so we get our parts cleaned up. There can be an erasure charge by the rental agency that is quite steep if they need to provide the service when parts are tuned in with marks.
There is nothing more distracting than having an excessive number of marks that even the hardest erasing will not remove. When I am sight-reading quickly in the early rehearsals, these kinds of mark even have been known to induce a sight-reading error (when I say "what the...").
I just worked Reed 3 for Gypsy and as hard as I tried, I could not remove the phrases "Jennifer plays here" and "Lisa plays." Frustrating!
HRL
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Author: kilo
Date: 2008-06-28 12:03
"There is nothing more distracting than having an excessive number of marks that even the hardest erasing will not remove."
That's true but occasionally I'll get a copy with all the little finger "L's" and "R's" still visible even after repeated erasures and it doesn't bother me at all!
Addressing the original question, other than careful circling or other penciled reminders I think accuracy develops with repetition and an underlying awareness of tonality.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-06-28 12:40
> How often have you worked in the pit for a musical show? I can't imagine
> having a conductor allow you to "scribble" on rental orchestra parts.
Hank, as I wrote before, we are allowed to do whatever we want with our parts (paint, punch, staple, cut, paste etc). They're all copies (with the band's stamp, and the original is in the vault). No such thing such as rental scores here.
--
Ben
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-06-28 12:54
Ben,
Perhaps you may have confused the original question which was about musicals. It appears that you are talking about band music. Two different animals.
The music for the pit orchestra is almost always rented from companies like Tams-Widmark where royalty is involved. Here is a link
http://www.tams-witmark.com/
HRL
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-06-28 13:35
...And Ben,
The key signature(s) and modulations that occur in Musical Theater are brutal in comparison to standard ensemble music.
The composers have no conscience about sending us from two flats to six sharps to five flats (etc...) throughout the pieces.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-06-28 13:38
Hank Lehrer wrote:
> The music for the pit orchestra is almost always rented from
> companies like Tams-Widmark where royalty is involved.
How it is working in the US is not necessarily relevant for other parts of the globe. Here you pay royalties on a per-performance basis. Fair use of (bought) parts usually includes copies for personal usage (that are to be destroyed after use).
But you're right, the original question dealt with musicals in the US.
--
Ben
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-06-28 17:04
A great group of good/experienced answers above, YES to soft pencils, key sig. circles/reminders, I like Post IT notes for cuts and other troubling spots, AND an arsenal of available/playable insts C,Bb,A sops, bass cl, perhaps even an alto cl [for soft alto sax parts]. Many books call for a couple saxes as well, transposition skills help [or rewrite]. Lets hope some of our current pit players, John Moses etc, will update my [other's?] "antique" experiences. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-06-28 17:06
James,
Exactly. And then there was the song by one of the cast in Chicago (the reporter) where the conductor said "we need this down a 3rd or 4th (I can't remember). As I recall, most of the reeds used Finale as the transposition was a real bear and something that was not easy to do at sight. And I had a couple of quick instrument changes to boot.
HRL
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-06-29 13:14
I would suggest getting an overall picture of each Scene as far as modulations are concerned. This doesn't help in sightreading but rather than just visually recognizing a key signature , memorize what keys you will be going through.. perhaps even sing the key change...the sequence might also help....up a semi tone etc. It is very hard to keep things straight when key signatures are only marked at the beginning of sections. I will put a light reminder over some sections for example four bars is in F# major.... especially when modulating or when it is just confusing to the eye. Also don't believe everything on the written page....the last musical I did was filled with INK mistakes. People had found some of these....then erased the correction allowing the next person to go through the same process during rehearsal.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Chelle
Date: 2008-06-29 13:39
I always feel so amaturish doing this, but then I do only play in a community pit orchestra and I'm not a professional musician. I prefer to concentrate on things other than the key signature, so I always photocopy all my music (not sure if I should admit to that or not) so I can write in all the sharps and flats so I don't even have to think about them (I copy my music so I don't have to deal with erasing all that writing). Normally, I'm not that bad with key signatures, but when there's 5 or 6 sharps or flats, that's a bit too much for me to think about on the fly and with such a small ensemble (we usually have 15 in our pit orchestra), if I miss one, it will really stand out so I don't want to chance it.
-Chelle
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2008-06-30 04:16
Hi All:
As many of you know, I've opened 25+ shows on Broadway, and subbed at several hundred other shows over the past 35 years on the "Great White Way."
On Broadway, and this may not apply elsewhere, circling anything means "do not play it." So, we never circle a key signature, or a single note or phrase, unless we mean to not play it! Underlining is permissible, high-lighting or darkening are also OK. But never circle...that's Broadway, so use that advice if it helps wherever you are.
With many recent Broadway shows, like our current production of WICKED, we ask the copyists for the parts in advance of our first formal rehearsal. We may only get a few rehearsals, with many changes, before the actual opening night, so it's important to get the parts ASAP.
That said, when I get my professionally copied original Broadway show book, I immediately have it copied in exactly the same format as the original. It is a legal "practice or sub book" that we all use to mark up as we see fit. The original book remains untouched.
I personally prefer to underline strange or abrupt key changes, occasionally even high-light a difficult key or instrument change. If I'm playing many horns, like I do at WICKED, I use different color high-lighters for each instrument. This takes a considerable amount of time and effort, but pays off big time at those precious few rehearsals before the opening. If I still am having a problem with an odd accidental, I write in that accidental, in pencil, and then erase it after I've mastered the difficult passage. After spending many hours preparing my own copied parts, feeling confident about the difficulties I've overcome, I go back to the original parts, and take those parts, along with my own parts to the first rehearsal.
I try to use as many of the original parts as I can, but occasionally refer to my own specially prepared parts when needed. This can be a bit confusing at first, but it works for me after all these years. After the first few rehearsals, I rely on my memory, my ear, and good practice habits to use the original parts for the run of the show. I make copies of my parts for my subs, and also a practice video of the conductor, along with the sound track of my own playing. This, in most cases, is enough for my subs to come into WICKED, and sub for me whenever I need them. It's important to note, that subbing is a very difficult job on Broadway. You must play a nearly perfect show your first time in, and you never get a rehearsal. Watching the book, looking at the conductor, and listening to the whole orchestra is all you get when you are preparing to sub a show.
Again, my original Broadway book is always "clean" and kept that way by my subs. No one is permitted to write, circle, or change anything in the parts. The musicians can mark up their own book as they see fit, but the original books are eventually returned unmarked, and often a bit worn!
I have also played "old shows" with hard to read hand-copied parts, and I know it's a drag to try to stumble through those over-marked, hard to read books, but it's part of the learning process. We must now all try to make it easier for the next musician to play the music we have used, by not overly marking up the original parts, as it was done at those old shows.
Broadway musicals have come a long way since I started in the early 1970s.
Parts are not "hand copied," now they are computer parts that look great and are easier to read and play. We have less rehearsals, but better musically trained Broadway musicians, conductors, and orchestrators. The music has changed with the times, and some shows are better...some worse. But the Broadway Musical lives on, and it is one of America's unique art forms...to be enjoyed by audiences all over the world!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: allencole
Date: 2008-06-30 04:28
About 10 years ago, I stopped using original books for pit work. Like Chelle, I xerox a show book and assemble the pages in a binder. This allows for marking, highlighting, and setting up pages so that page turns are workable and there is no confusion with cuts.
I did this primarily to make things as easy as possible for substitutes, and would never go back to using original books. In my local-yokel market, folks don't want to sub for you if your book is confusing and makes them look inept...and--as in every market--a negative experience with a sub can cost you your job.
A fringe benefit is that you can keep your xeroxed book, and use it to show some of those thorny situations to students. I've often wished that there could be a Broadway excerpt book, loaded with dangerious situations like those where your pinkies can't alternate. (I"m thinking right now about a VERY exposed clarinet solo in Gypsy.)
Back to the original question on key signatures, I just feel the scale. Baermann 3 may be the best prescription. I strongly agree that circling is dangerous--mostly because it might not fully communicate to another player exactly what you're concerned about. It could be a distraction instead. Ditto for marking all sharps and flats. For a player who already works well with key signatures, non-accidental sharps and flats can actually be a reading problem--particularly in low light environments where sharps and naturals can blur together.
As for marking in rented books, the PenTel click eraser will erase cleanly and without damaging your pages.
Allen Cole
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-06-30 08:22
Some interesting thoughts here, thanks; I too have trouble with this.
My current solution for particularly intransigent key changes is to pencil in the first occurrence of the 'difficult' flat or sharp, but inside polite parentheses () as a 'courtesy accidental'. And then I leave it there when I give the part back. Even so I'm still looking for some sort of mental trick to keep track of musicals which go through six keys in twenty-four bars.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-06-30 10:40
I imagine many of us have learned a lot from these posts. I've never "pitted" but have suffered through the scribbling with Comm. band music. The worst is the person who inks the wrong info.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-06-30 15:09
Please erase your marks and courtesy accidentals unless, on the rare case, you know for a fact that the original part is misprinted!!
Your courtesy marks cause me the same problems that you have reading the proper key signature! For a moment I doubt what I already know (because I know the key sig's!) and have to double-check as I'm playing.
Courtesy accidentals in music are stupid and undermine the rules that we live by!
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2008-07-01 13:28)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-06-30 18:10
Many TKS, JJM, its always best to know [and likely we should use] the techniques you Pro's have developed "under the gun" in this rewarding and often difficult field of playing cls and saxes etc. I believe the first show I played was in the 1960's, [Prob OK !] but seldom more than 2 per year, out here in the boonies. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Philcoman
Date: 2008-06-30 18:45
A special note of thanks to those of who are conscientious about erasing your notes and marks-- years ago I worked for a distributor of musicals, and a large part of my job was going through the returned rental scores erasing musicians' notations. It was and is perfectly acceptable to make such notations (how many of us could get through an entire score without them?), but those of you who know enough to use soft pencils and who are careful about erasing when you can are doing a favor to other musicians, including the one at a desk in a warehouse who has to spend his time erasing instead of playing!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-06-30 19:09
> years ago I worked for a distributor of musicals, and a large part of my job
> was going through the returned rental scores erasing musicians' notations.
Now you got me thinking - wouldn't it be cheaper (and more fair to subsequent renters) to keep the master copy in your vault and only issue copies of the score, and replace scribbled-on returns?
What would you do if someone spilled coffee over his/her sheet while making notations with a waterproof pen?
--
Ben
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-06-30 19:11
Hello Ben,
I believe that the rental companies charge $50 for damages...and maybe they "rehabilitate" the damaged edition.
Would be interesting to know...what was your experience Philcoman?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-07-01 09:00
> Courtesy accidentals in music are stupid and undermine the rules that we live by!
"And where would we be without rules? France."
:-)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-07-02 12:35
Hi,
The funny thing about a "courtesy" accidental that might have been marked in is that as I am sight-reading for the first time and I see a # or a b, I mentally think "double-sharp or double flat." By the time I figure things out, sometimes it's too late. However, if you have a music theory background, you can sometimes sense how your part fits the harmonic structure and pretty much know "what's really up or down" in these cases.
John M., the problem out here in the farmlands is that you might have a 4 or 5 performance run and duplicating a whole book is cost-prohibitive (and over-size paper).
HRL
PS There is some really hard 1st clarinet parts in Fiddler (I'm glad I was sitting next to the player that had that stuff). That would be a good one for the Broadway excerpts book.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-07-02 13:32
Seriously, I never knew 'courtesy' accidentals could throw people. My own twisted mind finds reading these, especially when they've got proper little brackets round them, quite natural. Or maybe that's the problem. Anyhow I'm now on a quest to learn how to do this.
I'd never ink a score though, even to correct a mistake. Y'know, I once frequented a library where pens weren't even allowed in the door on principle - good idea if you ask me.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-07-03 14:27
Michelle ....how was the rehearsal and key signatures? As so often happens with these threads the original question is overshadowed by side issues that are discussed.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: William
Date: 2008-07-03 15:08
Bassie wrote: (regarding "courtesy" accidentals) " And then I leave it there when I give the part back."
Even if written within the () marking, I would plead for you to always erase ALL of your markings as the next player most probably will not need the marking(s) and will only be confused by their presence.
One more time, ALWAYS ERASE EVERY MARKING YOU HAVE MADE IN YOUR PART after the last show. You are doing me NO FAVOR by leaving them there.
BTW, I highly recommend the use of Post-Its (those sticky little reminder memo thingies) for indicating cuts, etc. They are much more easily removed after the last show than pencil lines, arrows, cuts, etc.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-07-03 15:25
Yes, William, I have already been through this above, thank you. To reiterate: personally, I welcome beneficial clarifying marks left by previous players, like 'solo' and the single exposed instance of a B#. However, it has been explained to me that some people do not welcome these, and I respect this knowledge I have gained.
Perhaps I might clarify my position at the start of this thread a bit further. In every rental part I have played, there have been faded bits from the repeated insertion and erasure of certain marks by the previous eighty-three players. Now, if it happens that I find it beneficial to re-insert one of these marks, I find it very hard then to erase it for the eighty-fourth time. Such an act would not seem to be in the interests of the part.
So I came to believe that a certain, small proportion of the marks that we might make on our scores are actually beneficial to a majority of players. You can appeal to the rule of musical law, but I appeal to musical common sense. The 'courtesy' mark is reserved for moments where the success /of a performance/ hinges on a single note. If I were a midi sequencer, I would not need such things. However, I am a musician with limited rehearsal time, and I welcome them.
And yes, Post-its are great for big cuts and rapid page turns.
Post Edited (2008-07-03 16:24)
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2008-07-03 16:29
The rehearsal went very well, thanks for asking! I ended up doing a combination of things - copying the entire score and marking the copy with post-it flags and pencil wherever I needed a reminder. I plan to have the show down before opening night (next week!) so I can switch to the "official" score. I may transfer a few post-it flags to the original, but I think it will end up being a great show. We're doing Beauty & The Beast and I just love it! Truth be told, I think I'm kind of a "pit nerd" because I just love doing musicals! I enjoy the community band stuff too but there's a different kind of "rush" you get from the pit as the house dims and the music begins.
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions!
Michelle
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Author: allencole
Date: 2008-07-03 17:59
Hank, you must really be in the sticks! Big-city copy machines will reduce your book to 8.5x11. For me most normal sheet music reduces properly at 93%. Old show books may need to be set at 90% or the upper 80's. Try it out on your next visit to Pixley or Mt. Pilot <g>
I feel your pain, though. Most local shows I've played in recent years are runs of 3 weeks or less, and more are running weekends only. Revising and copying is no small drain on time and money.
John, I'm glad to hear that a "practice and sub" book is legal. In my medium city, it's more and more essential because work is drying up and most potential subs are skittish about exposing themselves on a pit gig and having their performance sabotaged by a crappy book. It's become customary for players both to fix up the book for maximum readability and to give the sub their own copy in advance.
I may have to print out your post. Circling is one of my pet peeves with students.
Allen Cole
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2008-07-03 18:20
I have my own music but I use a soft pencil and draw circles around any note that might throw me. Another clarinet player made fun of me for doing this! I also use post-it notes as reminders for whatever. What I do with my own music is really nobody else's business anyway.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-07-03 19:03
Exactly: What you do with your own music (and during the preparation and performing process) is your own business.
But when you have to return music that didn't belong to you in the first place...return it without your marks.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: eac
Date: 2008-07-04 07:21
Teacher supply stores sell removable colored clear tape (one product name is highligher tape) you could put over the key signatures. It comes in several different colors.
Liz Leckey
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