 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bassclarnetrocks
Date: 2008-02-26 02:42
I play the bass clarinet primarily and i am asked to play contra in a couple of weeks for another ensemble, and i was wondering if their was any tips to help me learn the new embisure faster....THanks!
~Emily
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2008-02-26 03:43
I have just one tip: use very little embouchure; give the reed its freedom.
Enjoy!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-02-26 11:02
Use the softest reed that doesn't make a flapping sound on the low notes.
Set the tip of the reed slightly above the tip of the mouthpiece -- perhaps 1/32" -- so that it seals when the reed bends along the curve of the mouthpiece.
Play double lip, so your brains don't get scrambled by the vibration.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-02-26 12:50
I still disagree with Ken about using a very soft reed --- by the nature of the large size of contra reeds relative to the diameter of the cane tubes they are cut from, the reeds tend to be too thin generally, so I'd recommend instead trying something like a Vandoren #4 to start with. And needless to say, if you're at all serious about getting a sound that's not like a sewer pipe or a giant buzz, you'll need a good mouthpiece, e.g. Clark Fobes or Walter Grabner.
I don't agree with using double-lip either -- you can use a mouthpiece patch instead to isolate your jaw from the vibrations. Finally, take in plenty of mouthpiece when you play, and (like the tubists learn to do) anticipate your entrances as it takes a while for the notes to respond.
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2008-02-26 16:48
I'd agree that the right mouthpiece and a decent ligature can make a night and day difference. Do you own your own contra bass clarinet, or are you just borrowing one? Mouthpieces for these instruments aren't cheap.
Strangely enough, I've had some really good luck with a Woodwind Company contrabass mouthpiece (made by LeBlanc, I believe). I also bought a Selmer C*, which isn't nearly as good for me (and the Selmer mouthpiece is a LOT more expensive -- $149 vs. $249 street price). The Woodwind Company mouthpiece is very free blowing. I'm using it with a Rovner ligature, and VanDoren #4 reeds. One of these days, I want to experiment with synthetic reeds. The contra bass takes a LOT of air. I have a nice thick patch on the mouthpiece. I actually enjoy the vibration (hope it's not harming my brain). If you're going to play sitting down, a nice comfy office chair that has a pneumatic height adjustment lever is ideal.
One of these days, I'd like to try a Grabner mouthpiece. I'm curious what price range these might be in.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2008-02-26 18:30
Grabner's contrabass mouthpiece:
http://www.clarinetxpress.com/contrabass.html
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Author: Lann
Date: 2008-02-27 04:59
Playing contrabass clarinet is like trying to eat a big sandwich. You do your best without making a fool of yourself.
Buy reeds one or two at a time. And in all of the strengths you can find. I played a 2.5 Rico contra reed because it's all the music store would buy for me. I out sourced later, of course, but see what you can get before you worry about what you need.
I abstain from saying if double lip is good or bad. I did not use it, but that does not mean I don't think it's worth a shot.
The reed does sit up a little higher. Congratulations to Ken, for managing to put into words something similar to how I position my contra reed. (Before it was "I dunno...it sits a little higher than a Bb clarinet reed...")
I rented my contra, and I stuck with the setup that came with the beast, and as long as I didn't really crank down on the ligature, I did just fine. If it's just short term, I wouldn't worry so much (these are great tips if this instrument changes your life and you switch to it for longer term)
It's a great instrument, and I really hope that you enjoy yourself.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-02-27 05:06
Dave, is it possible you like strong reeds because you play a mouthpiece you refaced this way on contra? I'm asking because the mouthpiece I have for bass clarinet that you refaced needs at least strength 4 reeds to play while another mouthpiece needs at most strength 3. With those different reeds they feel about the same.
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2008-02-27 12:33
I also put my reed a little higher. I even read that in an instruction book about low clarinets once. The idea is indeed that when the reed bends towards the mouthpiece, it must perfectly close the opening.
About reed strengths, this probably depends to a large extend on your mouthpiece. On the one I'm playing (an old Selmer C*) I cannot imagine how to play it with a hard (#4 or harder) reed. It would require an incredible amount of air and embouchure and not sound nice at all. Or perhaps it's just my lack of skill..?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-02-27 15:38
Nitai, you're probably right, I put fairly long facings on my refaced mouthpieces which require relatively hard reeds.
nahoj, I think it's been demonstrated with high-speed video that except in extreme cases, clarinet reeds never actually touch the tip (and close off completely) during their vibration. Selmer C* mouthpieces vary all over the place in terms of tip opening and facing length and curve, so it's entirely possible that a hard reed wouldn't work with yours.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-02-27 21:40
David -
Actually, I believe high-speed photos have shown that the reed seals completely against the mouthpiece, usually for more than half the time. This is why the clarinet acts as a closed tube. See Av Galper's posting at http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2000/03/000977.txt.
There was a huge dust-up about this on the Klarinet list a few years back, with gritted-teeth disagreements over whether the reed sealed against the mouthpiece at low volumes. Some people speculated that the "English" tone was produced with the reed in free vibration (not touching the lay) even at high volumes. As I recall, this is what made Jonathan Cohler leave in a huff, and was the start of the Tony Pay/Roger Garrett wars.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-02-27 23:38
Oh cool, Ken, can we start another bitter spat here? Things have gotten way too quiet on the BB lately........
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2008-02-28 11:34
David, I never said the read actually closes or doesn't close the mouthpiece off while playing (I simply don't know that -- although it IS an interesting question). I only use the closing off of the mouthpiece as a means of measuring the correct position of the reed vs. mouthpiece.
Sorry if my formulation isn't aggressive enough. ;-)
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Author: monzamess
Date: 2008-02-28 16:10
Clarinet playing filmed from inside mouthpiece:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAYNxBbvXFE&feature=related
Filmed from inside mouth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYwrOKS6xlE
These aren't clear enough (to me) to answer your debate, but they're interesting and somewhat related to the topic. I bet they've been posted here before so sorry if this is a repeat.
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