 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Feldoh
Date: 2008-01-15 22:41
Hey I'm currently in high school, and play clarinet in one of the bands at my school and I have a problem, which is probably common. I never seem to be able to play with decent pitch. Before rehearsals begin I always check with my tuner and adjust as best I can (decently). But I find that as rehearsal progresses I usually become incredibly sharp on almost all pitches. I've been thinking about and I guess it could be because my instrument is becoming warmer, but I don't think it would make me +20 cents sharp? I don't take private lessons so I can't really ask a teacher so I thought I'd post here.
My clarinet is pretty old. It's a Vito which I've been playing for going on 8 years now, however I replaced the mouthpiece and ligature recently with a Vandoren B45 and a Rovner ligature but I still have the same problem. Could my intonation problems bebecause my clarinet is so old?
I also thought it might be because of my embouchure and overall tone, however I never thought I had horrible embouchure of tone, but I'm probably a bad judge. If this looks like the reason, then what can I do to improve my tone and embouchure? I've searched for exercises on the internet to improve, since I can't afford private lessons this seems like my best resource, but I'm always open for help.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-01-15 23:06
You're better being sharp than flat. At least with being sharp, you can always flatten things - and it's usually easier to flatten sharp notes than sharpening flat ones.
Is your barrel 67mm? It should be. If it's been shortened (and is now 65mm or less), this can put the tuning and intonation out - especially in the throat and the upper part of the upper register.
Pull the barrel out by 1-2mm to see if this helps the tuning in general.
I know you've a B45 you bought recently, but have you tried any Vandoren "13 Series" mouthpieces?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-01-16 00:57)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-01-15 23:09
Never tune a cold horn. Before concerts, we usually have some 15 minutes warm-up with long tones and all, and only then we'd tune. Every material behaves a bit differently when getting warmer, and tuning an instrument that is not at combat temperature is useless.
If you must tune before band, try to tune some 15 cents flat and watch the pitch over the next half an hour.
As long as your Vito is in good repair, it is a very dependable horn.
If you can't afford a teacher, ask one of your section buddies to help you before or after the rehearsal.
--
Ben
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2008-01-15 23:21
The fact that you realize you are out of tune is a definite plus.
Now that you know you are, you can take steps to correct it.
Some people can't "hear" well enough to realize they are out of tune.
The advice above and lots of practice should eventually enable you to play in tune most of the time.
Very few if any clarinets are in perfect tune, even with themselves, without making embouchure adjustments on the fly to correct pitch.
Warm up before tuning, learn your instrument's tendencies, and above all listen.
Post Edited (2008-01-16 21:44)
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Author: Feldoh
Date: 2008-01-16 00:48
Thanks for the help guys, yeah tuning after I've warmed up helps.
But I THINK I might have a shortened barrel because even when I turned after warming up when practicing I needed to pull out quite a bit (like 1/8 of an inch) to line my pitches fairly close to where they should be.
Thanks again!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-01-16 01:02
The "common problem" is to .........I hate to even say this word.......... "bite" more as you continue to play. The mistake most often made about embouchure support for the "less experienced" is that it has anything to do with your jaw muscles. The majority of your effort (in fact, the only real effort in clarinet playing in general) is the proper use of ALL the facial muscles that surround the mouthpiece. The first one to concentrate on is the upper lip area. Think of drawing DOWN the lower lip (bearing down on the top of the moutpiece). This action is best for bringing the pitch DOWN. Also make sure that you are using a firm enough posture for your cheek muscles (the buccinators........you feel them when sucking a thick milk shake through a straw only in clarinet you're blowing OUT). The flat chin stuff is really only one fourth of the equation if that. Just place your finger in your embouchure in place of you mouthpiece to check. You should feel firmness pretty much ALL around.
Yes, alright, there is a teensy weensy bit of jaw pressure. But if you're really conscious of it, then it is WAY too much.
For really good sound you also want to add a very steady, constant, thin stream of air, but that will create a robust timbre more than effect pitch.
...........Paul Aviles
P.S. An eighth of an inch ain't bad at all. You do want some give and take when tunning with others.
Post Edited (2008-01-16 01:03)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-01-16 02:24
I would suggest tuning bottom line E and then compare this with high B. The tuning problems with woodwinds usually occur when octaves or in the case of clarinet 12ths are spread. If the E is sharp then the chances are not good that high B will be perfectly in tune....it will tend to be sharp. Check pairs of notes..... D below the staff and high A, Low C and G above the staff. First space F and high C. ie same fingering but with the addition of the speaker key. To sum up, when tuning use pairs of notes not just individual notes.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-01-16 10:25
20 cents could easily be warmup. Warm up, then tune. 1/8" is a lot but not ridiculous.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-01-16 12:28
I think the suggestions about warming up before tuning may solve your problem, but the Vitos I've tried do seem to be tuned a bit sharp, as are most good student clarinets. Apparently, manufacturers build them that way to compensate for the fact that most beginners, who don't have developed embouchures yet, tend to play flat. Not much help to people who aren't beginners any more!
If warming up before tuning doesn't completely solve the problem and it turns out the clarinet really is tuned so sharp that you consistently need to pull out, then try tuning rings that slide down over the tenon. A set of tuning rings is cheap and just about any music store that sells reeds should have a set that fits a Vito. T
he advantage to using a tuning ring is that when you push the tenon socket right down against it, the way you'd normally push the socket down against the base of the tenon, the ring stablizes the joint. That minimizes the chance that, if the clarinet gets bumped or dropped when it's in "pulled out" position, the tenon could break. The Vito is a good, sturdy clarinet, but in my flea market crawls, I've seen even Vitos with broken tenons.
Even if you need to pull out to an "in between" length, so that one ring isn't enough, two rings are too much and you end up having to use one ring with a little bit of a gap, that's still much better protection for the tenon than nothing. Also, if you find the right ring(s) to bring the clarinet down to the best pitch, that's a time-saver in rehearsals. You'll know just how to set up so that you won't have to mess around so much with tuning, pulling out, tuning again, pulling out some more, tuning, realizing it's out too far now, pushing back in again...and all that jazz.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-01-16 18:01
Do some experiments..... try tuning cold at 438 and see how it changes when you are warmed up. Does the instrument go up to 440 or 442 approximately? Make a list of tuning tendencies on your instrument.....various notes, various registers . Try tuning to a sharp note on your instrument and see what that does. It should bring your pitch level down. Try playing a long tone for about 20 seconds or more and then look at the tuning meter. Try playing crescendos and decrescendos while watching the meter. Tuning at a soft dynamic will bring down your pitch level as opposed to tuning at forte. Try checking your tuning when you pushed right in. Recalibrate the tuner....see if you are generally at 444 or what? Use a drone to play against and just use your ear. Pull the barrel out as far as possible while keeping open G from being too flat. There is a point where the throat notes will nose dive in pitch. Find out where that point is.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-01-16 21:32
"Tuning at a soft dynamic will bring down your pitch level as opposed to tuning at forte."
Tuning at a soft dynamic will tend to be sharp. The reed has less travel at low dynamic levels as opposed to playing loudly where the amplitude is greater, making the pitch flat (and is counteracted by using a firmer embouchure at louder levels).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-01-17 08:27
Tuning up at a soft dynamic level will encourage you to play at a lower pitch level overall. ie tuning softly will keep pitch high so when you tune you have to pull out more to be in tune with a tuner in contrast to tuning loudly which encourages a lower pitch....this creates a higher pitch level overall when you tune up to a meter. ie you push in more to compensate. I fear I'm making this more complicated than it need be. In a nutshell...if you tune at pp and then proceed to play at forte this will tend to encourage keeping the pitch down and vice versa.
Freelance woodwind performer
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