 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: columbus
Date: 2007-06-14 02:44
Hi, my teacher got a hold of a very slightly used R-13 from around 1986 that she suggested I buy. The tech who is selling it wants $2000 with free service at any time. Is this worth it?
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2007-06-14 02:52
Seems overpriced to me, considering that a year ago I got a new R13 for 1800 (before the price was set)
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-06-14 04:23
How good of a tech are they? If they're the type of tech that will replace tenon corks and do other minor repairs, then no. If they're a $500-overhaul tech and will include such uber-service overhauls, then it might be a decent find.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-06-14 09:09
The thing is, that's around the price of a new professional horn (maybe R13, but at least some others). And it's NOT new. So I would definitely take the time to compare it to some new horns and other horns. If it's better than the other horns and seems to be a GREAT clarinet, go for it. Granted, you COULD save $$$ on a used horn, but think about the quality. Even if it IS a little expensive for a 'used' R13 (IMO), when you get down to it, what's a couple extra hundred or even a thousand bucks in the LONG run for a horn that you love and plays well? Could be worse . . . we could be playing . . . well, pretty much ANY other instrument as they all seem to be more expensive than a professional clarinet . . . .
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-06-14 15:30
I agree with EEbaum. At first blush it does seem overpriced, but if it was a top notch tech and I loved the horn, it would seem like a bargain. I would absolutely buy a horn like that from Brannen, Backun, or many others if lifetime service came with it! The important questions (at least to me) are:
1) who is the teacher, and how much do you trust their opinion on horn selection?
2) who is the tech, and what is his reputation?
Post Edited (2007-06-14 19:04)
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-06-14 15:57
Price depends upon your value
that auction site price - probably around $900-1200.
BUT, does it need work; an overhaul, etc ??
then take that auction R13 add a good overhaul, etc then that pushes up the price.
But when you buy from auction sites you get no warranty.
Retail music stores sell instruments, even used ones for more than those auction sites. But they usually attach some warranty period.
What do you get with that R13 ?
- no modifications
- in perfect playing condition
- some type of warranty
and how much is "free service at any time" worth ? of course it depends upon the level of tech they are (a specialized tech or a 'school tech', or anywhere in between).
It may be 'over priced' but it all depends upon it's actual cost after a period of time.
Basically, I wouldn't discount strictly on price. You may be able to haggle that price down a bit too.
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-06-14 15:58
It's probably overpriced, unless you absolutely love it better than a large sample of new horns, and the technician is excellent. If these two things are true, then go for it.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-06-14 20:29
agree, way overpriced. 1986 models go for about $1200-1300 if in decent shape.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2007-06-14 20:55
I have to agree with everyone about it being expensive.
But what made me laugh was:
"Hi, my teacher got a hold of a very slightly used R-13 from around 1986 that she suggested I buy."
She got hold of it. It's 21 years old. Only $2000.
For some reason it makes me think of Woody Allen.
Steve
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2007-06-14 21:13
I think Jack and Steve - something stinks about this deal.
Go in with $1250 CASH in your pocket... I'll bet the price plummets.
FYI - the BEST clarinet I've ever played is a second hand Ridenour product.
It's easily better than my megabuck LeBlanc Opus.
The BEST R13 I have ever heard had been salvaged from three (3!) serious cracks and was purchased by it's owner for only $450. Neither of these clarinets are for sale.
If the best you can do for this kind of money, used is $2k - call the Muncy Winds hotline...(and don't buy from your teacher, it's a conflict of interests.)
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Author: columbus
Date: 2007-06-14 21:38
just a little more info:
the teacher that got this clarinet will be my professor in the fall and she got the horn from a tech friend of hers. His name is Wojtek Komsta. I played the clarinet and it seems like a very nice instrument.
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Author: columbus
Date: 2007-06-14 21:41
oh yea- I also did go through all the registers and the clarinet is very in tune.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-06-14 22:38
Even if this clarinet received $600 "Artist Overhaul" it is still way overpriced IMO.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-06-14 22:49
It's overpriced. I agree with everyone else and would not spend more than 1200 or 1300 on it even if it were from the Brannens or Vytas.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-06-15 00:43
Wojtek Komsta is an excellent tech, if he did the overhaul I am sure it plays wonderfully. But I agree that it is overpriced; $1400-$1600 sounds more like it to me. How long will he give you the "free service any time"?
If it's a lifetime thing, maybe that's why the price is inflated.
Sue
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Author: columbus
Date: 2007-06-15 01:57
I'm not sure if it's lifetime service- would it be worth it if it was?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-06-15 02:21
Depends on how good a clarinet it is. It's an oldie, so I'd guess $1200 of service would make it a good deal. And I mean big-name-level service. For what I'm guessing you'd end up using and how good a clarinet I'd guess it is, with included (lifetime) service I would pay in the range of $1000-1500, depending on how well it plays.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: pzen
Date: 2007-06-15 06:50
I have paid $10 for a framing hammer, works fine, but then I am not a framer. My carpenter friends pay perhaps 5 times what i do for a hammer that I can not distinguish from my own. But they can. On me the better hammer would be a waste.
Your clarinet is a tool. No one can tell you if it is overpriced. If you are not capable of laying out 5 or 6 clarinets, mouthpieces and/ligature all of the same model and consistently idenfing by a blind test which is/are the best, then you probably can not distinguish between the $1000 R13 and a UBER R13. You should be able to pick the horn up and say 'this is the best thing I have ever played'. This could be the best horn ever produced, but it will not make you a better musician.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2007-06-16 13:02
Let's try to be objective then;
This is the time of year when instruments are fallow - few buyers around.
Even if the instrument is PERFECT - a new, custom tuned, mechanically perfected R13 would cost perhaps $2500?
The moment you walk out of the showroom, the instrument loses 30-50% of the value paid, that's retail.
Any tech will claim that their bench time is worth X dollars/hour, but if they don't have any work on the bench, it's a loss.
If the keys have ANY plating wear, it will be difficult to resell.
If there has been any mechanical repair (to the mechanism or wood) that detracts from resale value.
If you don't have any other choices (and you do) then convenience is worth the cost of shipping and restocking fees.
The $750 premium for this horn would buy LOADS of reeds and lessons.
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2007-06-16 23:00
I paid just less than $2000 2 years ago for a brand new but "scratch and dent" R13, silver keys. The box was ripped open but I couldn't find any flaw on the horn at all. You might want to watch the clearance and outlet sections of the online retailers for a scratch and dent special since you can always return the horn if it's not a keeper.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-06-17 05:05
If that horn plays wonderfully, it has the same value as any other instrument that plays as well. Its a tool, not a showpiece.
You can find less expensive R13s, but you should forget the age and examine its playability and stability.
Bob Phillips
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-06-17 13:34
this might sound stupid, but maybe it is marked to be 'talked down'?
'1500? well... Ok.'
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Author: columbus
Date: 2007-06-17 19:47
Update: My teacher is probably going to buy the clarinet for herself, so she offered to sell her own R-13 to me for "around $1600." She will be getting work done on it- pads, etc. before she would sell it to me.
Good deal?
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Author: pzen
Date: 2007-06-18 02:06
I think I go with mr Phillips ... it is not a showpiece, it is a tool. If it is a good insturment you will get 5, 10, 20 years of use out of it. So what is the cost per hour?
Peace, love and understanding
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-06-18 03:55
I would assume (make sure you test it, but generally speaking) that the instrument of a teacher is one that was chosen because it was a very good instrument. So 1600 for your teacher's old instrument shouldn't be a bad buy. It should be a pretty good instrument if the teacher took the time and care to select it and take care of it. See if he/she'll let you give it a whirl.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-06-18 05:36
but still, for $1600, you could pick up a rideneour clarinet which has been held in high esteem over a leblanc opus!!! though i haven't tried one yet, i definitely do want to. keep an open mind.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-06-18 09:12
I have a ridenour clarinet. And it's GREAT. A GREAT clarinet. I haven't yet had the time to compare it side by side with my opus which I won't get to see again for quite some months, but from what I remember of my opus, I think my opus has the upper hand.
The ridenour lyrique is better than any R13 I've every personally tried about ten or so of carious R13 types . . . prestige, regular, and greenline). But that's if the original poster and his/her teacher aren't biased enough to not try out a hard rubber clarinet (which from the tone of this discussion, it seemed to me like they were buffet people primarily looking for and wanting a buffet R13)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: cpark
Date: 2007-06-19 17:48
Brand new Yamaha CSG. Better horn for basically the same price.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2007-06-19 22:55
I have to agree with cpark, there. The Yamaha CSG is just a fantastic horn for a great price.
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Author: Garret
Date: 2007-06-20 18:30
Just wondering how old the tech is--is he of the age nearing retirement? If so, the "free service anytime" may not be for a very long time.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2007-06-21 14:54
The "free service anytime" is just a dodge to distract from the obvious over pricing.
For just a few dollars more a new Yamaha, hamiltion keys and all, can be had!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-06-22 18:37
Hello,
Wojtek is my repairman. He is by far the most talented repairman I've ever used and I've used many (but not all) of the guys with the best reputation. He's also a fabulous clarinetist. If Wojtek is offering lifetime adjustments (he's 36 years old), then $2000 would be worth that service alone, not to mention that you're getting a clarinet out of the deal. I'm not a fan of Buffet in general, but if the clarinet plays well, then I'd say go for it. Of course, there's no harm in trying to talk the price down too (don't tell Wojtek I told you that!).
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2007-06-23 00:47
well i think that if you like the clarinet you better buy it before the teacher of yours get her hands on it!! :P
it sounds to me like you are about to do the deal of a lifetime!!
and really?! no matter how good the clarinet is. $2000 is very much worth it!!! its really cheap actually!!! the clarinet is THE cheapest pro instruments one can play. and yet, i bet that we are the ones that argu about the "high" price the most!!! shame on us!!! (not saying that i aint doing that to....)
this kind of opportunity doesnt exists anywhere else in the world of instruments!! if it was a very good violin from the 1800's that came with lifetime service from a very good tech, for the same price, that would make the violinplayers to go nuts by happiness!!! :D
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-06-23 04:06
> He is by far the most talented repairman I've ever used and I've
> used many (but not all) of the guys with the best reputation.
If you mean in a specific country (or countries) it is better if you mention this. This implies you meant many of the best repairers in the world (which is possibly what you meant, but it wasn't clear).
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2007-06-23 06:07
Does it really matter? Whether it's just the US or on a greater world scale, the point is that he's a great technician.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-06-23 06:17
Yes, it matters, and it has nothing to do with whether he is a great repairer or not.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-06-23 13:33
clarnibass wrote:
> Yes, it matters,
No it doesn't. Ben's post was well qualified.
If you want to discuss with Ben his ideas of using "many, (but not all)" of the best technicians, do so offline.
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Author: columbus
Date: 2007-06-27 00:24
Well, I ended up buying my teacher's old R-13, which came with a moennig barrrel for $1600. I'm really happy with it and it plays very very well
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-06-27 07:16
> No it doesn't.
OK. So I'm going to assume he meant from all countries.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-06-27 16:27
Hello,
I've used repairmen in countries other than the US, but I could probably count the repairmen I've used on three hands, certainly not from all countries, so I'm certain I don't have a fair representation of all of the work being done, however, Wojtek is incredible. I highly recommend that anyone considering a repairman exhaust the local talent before shipping instruments. When a talented repairman hears you play, that's when you start to get real service in little tweaks that you wouldn't even think about.
Also, I should apologize and be gender neutral, but the fact is that every repair person that I've used has been a male.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Vicky
Date: 2007-06-28 04:38
I bought a "slightly" used R-13 about 7 years ago. It was a 1984 model. I bought it from my local music store for $1600. . . not too bad. Then 3 years later I sold it to one of my students for $900. It's a very good instrument.
I think your deal is not so good. $2000 is too much for a used R-13.
Just my opinion!!
Vicky
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