 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2007-06-26 10:45
Posted under new header and deleted from another thread:
MichaelR wrote:
>> Tony, attacking the rubbish idea is a fine thing. Attacking the person who produce it is not. That was BassetHorn's point.>>
Well, since this sort of thing comes up a fair bit, it might be worth addressing.
My post was an attempt forcibly to point out to him that what he wrote had the effect of justifying fastidiousness about playing other people's instruments. It's one thing to go, YEUCHHH! -- that's about the right level to communicate fastidiousness -- but quite another to talk about knowing 'deep down' that what you are doing is 'not right', particularly in the sorts of context that teachers find themselves nowadays.
If you like, what I was doing was writing in 'ought' language rather than 'is' language. What I was saying was, he SHOULDN'T produce that sort of argument. I wasn't merely disagreeing with the content of what he said.
And, contra you and him, that is not necessarily 'not a fine thing'. It may be absolutely what is required. Perhaps you don't fully appreciate the degree to which a teacher's ability to help a student would be damaged if it were to become the norm for a student to refuse their teacher permission to try their setup. I was determined to come down on the other side.
>> It's the Internet, people get carried away. Tony is someone who gets carried away. He's also someone with lots of solid knowledge to benefit from.>>
I suppose I should be grateful for any endorsement I get, however backhandedly put. However, on this particular occasion, I wasn't 'carried away' -- even if he, and then you, chose to LABEL what I said as a 'personal attack'.
>> Consider the source, winnow the benficial information out from the personal ranting and benefit greatly. Get distracted by the chaff of personal stuff, lose the benefit of being here.>>
I think I've made it clear that I don't regard myself merely as a producer of 'solid' information. There may be an imperative dimension to it too. And in that context, I wonder whether I could plausibly label what you write here as a 'personal' attack itself, characterising me as it does as a 'personal ranter' and 'chaff-producer'?
Or do you think that your own moral high ground is comfortably unassailable?-)
By the way, I recently came across:
http://www.ethics.ubc.ca/eame/eameweb/HARMS/IsandOught.htm
...which I recommend to anyone interested. I found it illuminating myself.
Tony
Post Edited (2007-06-26 15:33)
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Author: ianm
Date: 2007-06-26 13:41
It is in my opinion a privilege to be invited to try someone else's setup, or indeed to have someone else try your setup, in order to learn. It is privilege to have heard your views recently on Kell and on other topics on which you have posted. I have not found your posts to be "carried away." It has seemed to me that your posts have been subject to various levels of criticism which I have not understood and which to me have appeared unjustified. I am sure that would be the opinion of many "silent" readers. I don't really understand this either though!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-26 14:06
To be honest Tony, a lot of what you put on here goes way over my head as I'm sure it does with several others (without putting a definitive figure on that) - I'm not an academic sort by any means (only just scraping through 4 GCSEs and one A-level) and although I do try to understand what you say on here, a lot of it just doesn't sink in when you go off on one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: William
Date: 2007-06-26 17:12
I enjoy your postings even though I sometimes am in disagreement with you, as with others. But that is the beauty of this website, to offer opinions, solutions, interpretations, etc for all of us to consider and learn from. That's my two cents worth this am--keep the conversations going and the minds open. Peace................
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Author: musiciandave
Date: 2007-06-26 18:42
I think that Tony is a very, very thought provoking and valuable addition to this forum. There will always be those who agree and those who attack on most any topic or posting.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2007-06-26 18:54
Great and informative reading!!!
David Dow
Post Edited (2007-06-26 19:03)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-06-26 21:12
Don't get me wrong Tony, it's an honour to have you here - just don't expect me to understand what you're saying all the time.
I'm just a simple, honest person with a mechanically reasoning mind, and definitely not an intellectual and never will be.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2007-06-26 22:31
-- "It has seemed to me that your posts have been subject to various levels of criticism which I have not understood and which to me have appeared unjustified. I am sure that would be the opinion of many "silent" readers." --
That's totally untrue and very unfair to the other posters in this discussion.
Please re-read the thread 'Teacher germs'. Let's leave the 'spinning' to the politicians.
Steve
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