 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Woodrow
Date: 2000-07-04 12:31
Sorry to make yet another post about tonguing.
After finding out about tonguing on this board last week, I spent the whole week practising it. At first it was impossible and I lost my embouchure entirely but after I got the hang of it I found a miraculous change, but I'm not sure if it is a good sign or a bad sign.
Basically, I've always had trouble in switching from the chalameau to the clarion register, notes would just fall apart no matter which way I went. If I tried to play a third space c and then a middle c for example, the middle-c would squeek. Going the other way, the third-space c would squeak.
BUT, when I use my tongue, THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN?!
So question is:
1) Do you need to use the tongue to make that transformation? Or should I be worried that I still cannont make the change without my tongue?
As a secondary thing:
OW! My tongue hurts!
Is that normal? Do you all have blisters on your tongues?
Woodrow
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Author: Crazi Clari
Date: 2000-07-04 12:40
With the tounging, maybe you're doing it too hard if it hurts that much! You're supposed to lightly touch the reed to you tounge, not slap it or make it exaggerated or anything, or maybe you're just not used to it~ talk to your teacher (if you have one) if not, it would be a good idea to get one if at all possible, i'm sure he/she could help you with the squeaking as well, but as for the squeaking, are you covering up all the holes properly? Just a suggestion, maybe someone else has a better one! ~Christina
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-07-04 13:15
As far as the tongue hurting, this really shouldn't happen. Either you are tonguing too hard or just practicing too long at a time when you are not yet used to it.
And yes you do need to be able to slur between registers without squeaking. How long have you been playing? This is a common problem for beginners. They often don't get the holes completely covered at first when moving on a slur. Going up is usually a bit easier than going down.
Try this for starters on slurs. Play a low note, then just add the register key. Make sure that you don't accidentally uncover the thumb hole. The upper note should come out fairly easily.
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Author: Woodrow
Date: 2000-07-04 13:27
Thanks Dee.
I tried that experiment (not moving any keys except the register) and I get the same problem.
Also, I used to have the problem with not covering the holes, but I think I'm OK there now.
I should note that I have had the clarinet checked for leaks (it used to have some) and it's fine now.
Problem happens on all reed strength, but more on thinner reeds (1.5-2.5).
I also notice that in switching chalameau to clarion I have to blow significantly harder (faster) to get tone. This also happens when I switch from say first space f to low G (ie. not so many fingers on the clarinet, to more fingers on the clarinet).
I know that that is not normal. However the tonguing seems to help because (i'm guessing) it stabilizes the reed before the tone begins.
I should mention that my tones within a register are OK, it's only really when I switch registers that it happens.
Although no problems in altissimo yet because i can't play altissimo yet .
Woodrow
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Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2000-07-04 13:29
Slurring is playing without tonguing. In clarinet music, you will see a long curved line over a series of notes. You tongue the first one but are supposed to play the rest without tonguing and without any break in the sound. If there is no slur mark over the notes, you should tongue them all. So you see, it is up to the composer whether you tongue or not. If you are not playing from music, use whichever technique sounds more appropriate with the music.
It is difficult to slur when you have to change registers. One of the causes is misplaced fingers, but another major one is not supporting the note with air from your chest. If you take a deep breath and hold your stomach muscles tight, you should find the jump from one register to the other is easier.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-07-04 14:18
Do you have a teacher? It is very hard to diagnose problems sight unseen as we are trying to do here on the internet.
The clarion notes do take more support than the chalumeau notes. This is normal unless there is a huge difference.
Also my guess is that when you add the register key, you are shifting one of the fingers slightly such that you do do get a small leak. The most likely culprit is the thumb but it could be others.
If notes are really stuffy and hard to play, there almost has to be leaks either from not covering the holes or bumping one of the other keys or from pads. Again this is often difficult for a person to tell for themselves. This is where the aid of a teacher is invaluable.
There is also a chance that your mouthpiece/reed combo is contributing to the problem. What brand and model of mouthpiece do you use? What brand and model and strength of reed do you use? Again a teacher can provide valuable guidence on these issues.
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Author: Woodrow
Date: 2000-07-04 16:04
Dee,
Well, the mouthpiece is terrible. I just use the one I got with my clarinet which is a used Selmer CL-300, but I can't justify buying another one at the moment, so it'll have to do.
As far as the reed, I switch between a Vandoren 2.5 and 4. I'm not very good with the 4, but I don't like the 2.5 at all. It is WAY too squeaky and tinny.
I know all of these are problems of course PLUS I don't have a teacher, so I know that's a problem, but I do appreciate your input (all of you) anyway, since it has helped me a great deal.
I think that Eoin is on target with it being my breath-support. I try to think about it while I'm playing, of course, but it still gets away from me.
As I said in the opening post though, the tonguing has helped so much it's incredible. And it's weird because now to me it is like a different instrument because I always thought of it as just blowing, but now I got this whole tongue thing going on. Cool.
I love the clarinet.
Woodrow
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-07-04 19:26
If you tonque is bothering you, that will probably go away with practice as its now doing it was not originaly designed to do. Its a muscle and its in training. Plus you have to get it in coordination with the finger muscles and this just takes little practice. I learned to tongue the wrong way and it held me back in playing, but when I got a good teacher started the right way, it felt awkward. When I finaly got the hang of it with practice, I found I could MUCH better and the iritation disappeared.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-07-04 20:04
It also sounds like you are at the very early beginning stages as a clarinettist. In that case, here's a word of encouragement. Things do get better. Adult beginners often get extremely frustrated as they are able to master most things quickly and expect to be able to do the same on an instrument. It just takes a more time than they expect it to. So relax and enjoy. You will make progress.
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Author: Joris van den Berg
Date: 2000-07-05 02:16
Perhaps a helpfull excercise to get a better breathing technique: stand with your back against a wall, feet with you heels against it. Then breathe in while making sure your shoulders don't move (easy to detect when they toutch the wall). Then play, again without moving your shoulders.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2000-07-05 06:11
As to breath taking,there is a good article by Michel Debost in here:http://www.oberlin.edu/~mdebost/
He says too much inhalation is nothing but wrong.
Squeeking: I'd like to suggest you to read Keith Stein's excellent book 'The Art of Clarinet Playing' on how to set your upper teeth row and lower lip. Typical position of upper teeth row is 8-10 mm from the tip and that of the lower lip is about 17 mm from the tip. When I started playing clarinet, I wrongly set the both about the same distance from the tip. This was totally wrong and I corrected it myself:Lower lip should be felt free to control.
Tipical squeeking is caused by too much bite. Lower lip should be felt free to control.
Another recent knowledge I got is the lower lip position: its position should be changed very slightly by harmonics series 1st,3rd,5th,7th,.... It should be changed toward tip generally up to 7th, then the direction changes toward off the tip. Experienced clarinettists seem to learn this by intuition.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2000-07-05 06:19
Another info: Tonguing is often misunderstood(I did). The release of the tongue from the reed make sound emit,not when the tongue touches the reed. It is like a valve. Just thinking like this made me do freer tonguing.
A good advice I read about tonguing in a flute book: When we feel tired, it is the good time to practice tonguing since we have to relax tongue!
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Author: Rene
Date: 2000-07-05 10:59
As a beginner, I had problems with squeekes when starting a tone (and sometimes still have, espacially, when I cannot hear myself well because of other instruments). The squeek was caused by putting too much of the mouthpiece into the mouth, and consequently a too low lower lip position, and/or by overaction. The reed then vibrates too wildly.
I never had squeeking in register change. There the usual problem is a short break between the notes. Could it be that you take a completely new position and restart the air pressure after the change, creating a squeek setup?
In any case, concentrate on a steady position and air support between the register change, and change the lower lip position only VERY slightly if at all. It is doable without a pause in tone or a squeek.
Have fun practicing.
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