 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 2000-06-26 20:44
In my hobby of restoring older clarinets, I've run across a phenomenon on a number of bass clarinets which baffles me. The two instrumentsI'm working on now (a Kohlert and an M. Lacroix) have a similar automatic double register vent mechanism which opens one medium-sized (approx. 3/8" ID) hole (metal-pipe) in the body for clarion notes from third-line B through fourth-space E, then above that note the larger hole closes and the register vent function is taken by a very small hole on the neck itself (on some other models this hole is on the very upper portion of the body just below the neck joint).
What I can't understand is the sizing and placement of the lower (larger) vent hole, because these two bass clarinets (and many others I've tried) produce a throat B-flat (using the standard fingering) that is quite stuffy, and frequently sharp as well. To correct this, I have had to remove the existing metal tube from the vent hole, enlarge the hole considerably, insert a larger-diameter and longer tube which extends about 1/8" into the bore, and line with cork the upper part of the newly-created register tube to lower the effective center of the hole and bring the pitch back down. This raises two questions: (1) Since the poor tone quality, and sometimes poor intonation, of the throat B-flat are so blatantly bad, why didn't the original manufacturers correct this? Certainly the incorrect size and placement of this vent are not driven by the need to function correctly as the lower register vent, because my two instruments work just as well in the second register after my 'fix' as before. (2) Since (in my experience) the alternate (r.h. side trill key) fingering for throat B-flat is nearly always clear and in-tune, why didn't the manufacturers design their mechanisms to activate this key for throat B-flat (a la Mazzeo)? I haven't tried it yet, but perhaps the side key would also work satisfactorily as the lower register vent, in which case the mechanism to use it would be no more complicated than the existing mechanisms.
Anyone else have some thoughts on this situation?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-06-26 22:30
Dave, what you ask is [to me] highly complex, and I'll look at my Selmer, Pedler, Linton? and Conn basses and try to make sense of it all. To pursue this, I suggest you look up the 2 patents [may be more] to Yamaha, inventor Yamargo on BC's US 4,793,235 , 4.984,276 {?? 5,448,010 and 5,212,334}. I'll add to this after eating dinner!!! First things first, I guess! Don
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Author: Al
Date: 2000-06-26 22:38
On my Leblanc, there is no vent hole on the on the neck. The Bb played the normal way sounds the same as the A key + the side key. I sometimes go for the latter fingering just as I would on the R-13 out of habit, but it sounds exactly the same as the standard (on the bass cl.), so there's no point except a psychological one.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-06-27 00:57
Dave - Looking up in my patent "archives" [several boxes of paper!], I found that I didn't give you the most comprehensive patent which is 4,922,792 , Yamaryo, assigned to Yamaha, 1990 [it may have another 10 years of life], sorry. On hurried reading, it seems to provide small, properly sized, high and low register vents AND the DESIREABLY LARGE tone hole for the "pinch" Bb activated by somewhat complicated [to me as a mediocre tech] mechanisms. I took a brief look at my Sel, Conn and old Linton's keying and they [also Pedler I think] provide only two tone holes, the S,C,&P like you describe utilizing a slightly larger hole serving as both lower reg key vent and Bb. The Linton has only one reg vent and a large hole [at the same body location as the "Bb /B nat" trill key hole]. I believe this combo was used by LeBlanc/Noblet also more recently. I'll read your thread-post again and compare it further to check my accuracy. In essence, except for Yam's patent and its possible employment on their top model bass, every maker earlier "poor-boyed" [my conclusion] by using ONLY two body holes to serve the THREE purposes, thus making a sacrifice in one purpose, prob. to keep mechanism adjustment at a tolerable level. Your mention of using Mazzeo's mechanism [Bundy version] to activate the trill key hole sounds good to me , his patents have expired, but you may want to read Brymer's analysis of its shortcomings. I'd suggest looking for a detailed Yamaha brochure for study, and if you can't find the pats, just ask me. Lots more to be said?? LUCK, Don
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Author: New Age Industries
Date: 2000-06-27 14:21
Don and Al,
Thanks for the detailed replies! It's interesting that on Al's bass, the normal- and alternate-fingered throat B-flats sound equally good.....I'd venture to guess that this is the exception rather than the rule! And while there is certainly something to be said for simplifying the mechanism by doubling up the functions of a tone hole, my observation (complaint?) is not with the doubling-up, per se, but that this tone hole is simply poorly placed and sized for the throat B-flat function on many instruments. My point was that this could have been improved without adding any mechanism at all, just be resizing and relocating the tonehole tube as I have done.
As a side note, last night I tried using the r.h. side trill key (the alternate throat B-flat fingering) as the register key for the chalumeau B through E, and it didn't work (on the Kohlert, anyway. The Lacroix hasn't been put back together yet, so the jury's still out on that instrument). Don, I was curious about your Linton bass, was it made by Robert Malerne, perchance? I believe Malerne made some (maybe all?) of Linton's B-flat clarinets, and in my experience, Malerne's clarinets were darned good. Is your Linton bass a good player?
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2000-06-27 14:22
Don and Al,
Thanks for the detailed replies! It's interesting that on Al's bass, the normal- and alternate-fingered throat B-flats sound equally good.....I'd venture to guess that this is the exception rather than the rule! And while there is certainly something to be said for simplifying the mechanism by doubling up the functions of a tone hole, my observation (complaint?) is not with the doubling-up, per se, but that this tone hole is simply poorly placed and sized for the throat B-flat function on many instruments. My point was that this could have been improved without adding any mechanism at all, just be resizing and relocating the tonehole tube as I have done.
As a side note, last night I tried using the r.h. side trill key (the alternate throat B-flat fingering) as the register key for the chalumeau B through E, and it didn't work (on the Kohlert, anyway. The Lacroix hasn't been put back together yet, so the jury's still out on that instrument). Don, I was curious about your Linton bass, was it made by Robert Malerne, perchance? I believe Malerne made some (maybe all?) of Linton's B-flat clarinets, and in my experience, Malerne's clarinets were darned good. Is your Linton bass a good player?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-06-28 14:07
Dave, the Linton [plastic] is torn down as of now for complete overhaul, too many concerts at this time! It could be a Malerne "stencil", I did have a Linton alto cl, it was similarly keyed and a quite-good oldie. If you are interested, please E-Mail me. Don
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