 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-02-22 16:44
How 'acceptable' is it to use a metronome (perhaps plugged into a speaker) during a rehearsal of a quintet/quartet or other chamber group? I can't do it now, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated at members of the group I'm in that rush/slow down and when I try to stay with them, I get accused by a third member of the group of rushing or slowing down and throwing them off. However whenever I suggest using a metronome during practice, I get the "turn that off . . . I can't concentrate while it's on" excuse. A POOR excuse, but I can't do anything about it now.
So in the future, if I'm ever in charge of a group, is it acceptable to use a metronome to practice therefore allowing people to see who is slowing down/speeding up during pieces of music? Or is there a better way to approach members about this than using it during a group rehearsal? Thanks.
Alexi
PS - I can't do anything about it now (it would only lead to future headaches at my current position) but in the future, if I get put in charge of a group I'll be in a position where something like this can (and if I find tempos a problem) would be implemented.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-02-22 17:02
GREAT question.
The way I look at it is that NO ensemble plays a rock steady tempo for long (nor should they - try setting a metronome to a recording of the vaunted Chicago Symphony). Tempo is a living breathing entity and should be allowed to breathe with the phrases and changes of character within a given piece of music.
That's the ideal.
Now, more down to earth, in ensembles (small, as I assume that you address) the tempo is what's in the air at the moment and it is the job of all the members to adjust accordingly from moment to moment.
Now, as far as rehearsal techniques go, if the section of music that's the problem is just FUBAR, I would agree that it is fine to stop, set the peramaters of the section to rehearse, and go over it slowly and thoughtfully WITH a metronome. You can then decide to speed up, one go around at a time or play at tempo with the metronome, but for all that's holy DO NOT use a metronome for any great length of time. The point is that rythm is, and always will be the length of the sounds produced. So I believe the metronome (in ensemble practice not individual practice) can cut off one's listening skills at the knees.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-02-22 17:06
I have used the metronome during chamber music practices multiple times. In fact in some cases, the metronome was absolutely indispensable.
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2007-02-22 19:53
Using a metronome is OK at first until everyone has a feel for the music.
Once everyone can play it at the written tempo, turn it off.
Post Edited (2007-02-22 20:28)
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Author: D
Date: 2007-02-22 20:30
yeah I've done this in lots of groups to help us get a tricky passage down.
In this hostile gathering you currently play with, what happens to the temp challenged person if you stick with the majority? Or what would happen if you were equally unpleasant but brutally honest? Or can you bite your tongue and just live with it till you all move on?
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Author: marcia
Date: 2007-02-22 21:26
I think a metronome definitely has a place in chamber music practise. My wind quintet has used one occasionally and it has solved the problem more than once.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-02-22 21:48
Metronomes come in very handy for ensemble practice. I've used them in the early stages of chamber music practice when dealing with new arrangements of tunes where we don't always know what's going on in all the parts! (FYI, it's mostly a trio of clarinet, accordion and violin...there aren't scores or recordings to use in learning the arrangements we make!)
Katrina
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-02-23 03:52
We (my WW5) frequently refer to the metronome in the early stages of working on a piece. It keeps us honest, and it prevents us from misunderstanding the nature of the piece under development.
But we've never found it possible to actually play against a metronome as a group. First of all, even Dr. Beat is not loud enough, and second, very few pieces actually call for a metronomic approach to tempo.
When we disagree, we just have to work it out with each other. But then again, we're all old folks, and we're just happy to be playing, so we perhaps aren't as likely to want to fight with each other about who's wrong or who's right.
Susan
Susan
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-02-23 06:20
"if I'm ever in charge of a group, is it acceptable to use a metronome to practice"
If you are in charge then you can do whatever you want, no?
"therefore allowing people to see who is slowing down/speeding up during pieces of music?"
Assuming more than one person play correctly, it should be very easy to hear who is slowing/rushing without a metronom. I also found that the more resistant (and maybe annoying) type of people you describe usually get hurt more than others when pointing fingers at them like this, so I avoid it.... but.....?
I guess I'm lucky to rarely ever play with a group that has trouble with tempo/rhythm. When I am, it is usually something I volunteer to do as a favor to someone, and in that case you won't hear the tinyest squeak of complaint from me, which is what I suggest you do too.
So I would agree with this approach someone wrote: "can you bite your tongue and just live with it till you all move on?"
About the metronom in general, I see absolutely no problem of using it if it helps, but nagging about it to a bunch of resistant people is anything but helpful (so good that you stopped before you started).
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-02-23 11:01
I'll have to bite my tongue for now. I don't have TOO much time left with this group before moving on, and of the persons in question, one is a stereotypical "diva" problems always being "around her" but never being "her" herself. EXAMPLE: playing 'Radetzky March', which is supposed to have a fairly consistent tempo throughout, she continually starts out at the correct tempo but slows down as soon as her solo comes up (the main theme) and then as we fight to get it back up to tempo, we're accused of speeding up, and if we relax and let her take the tempo it'll be dragged appx. 20 - 30 BPM slower than wherever SHE tells us to start. VERY frustrating.
The other is nearly retired and so really doesn't seem to care much, although he's much easier to get along with.
Also, another reason I'm biting my tongue is because the "diva" someone that I'm going to have to deal with in the near future to help sort out my re-enlistment contract and I don't want to have her "unintentionally" lose my details or cause enough delays that I end up getting screwed over come my re-enlistment. It sucks that I even NEED to worry about that, life shouldn't be that way, but it is. When certain people have power, they abuse it, and I've already seen examples of her doing so so I don't want to become a part of it.
But as for the metronome, I think I will definitely apply it in group settings in the future. (FYI, only to pieces that really NEED a consistent tempo - marches mostly, but sometimes a small part of a piece with runs needs to be even and not rushed, or in order to get certain awkward rhythms down)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-02-23 11:12
Dear Alexi,
You may want to be a bit cautious what gets put out on the net. Many of us read the forum
............Paul Aviles USA
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-02-23 15:46
I understand, Paul, but then again, it is a little sad that I'm at a point where I'd rather post it on the web than try to confront the person directly due to possible repercussions that could affect my CAREER. And sad that sometimes I even have to worry about THAT. I hope never to be looked at like that.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-02-23 16:15
Interesting point. But I may be the next diva who is your first line supervisor. Also the diva in question may have friends eslewhere who might take exception to the remark.
All in all though, I agree that in the remedial situation described that a metronome would solve some problems. Perhaps just happen to have one at a rehearsal and keep suggesting to use it every once and awhile. Eventually even the most recalcitrant member should give in for a little remedial work.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2007-02-23 16:26
In our group we had a similar problem with 16th note runs in a slow piece that were being rushed. I brought it up a couple times after careful woodshedding with the metronome at home, but felt like my observation was discounted. I just kept quiet about it after a couple times. When we had a coach come in he also noticed that the runs were played too fast and fixed it. Then again, there were things that had to be brought to my attention. It goes both ways.
What can you do? It´s a group and the group as a whole makes the decisions, not individuals. I think that every time you have two or more people deciding on anything, you´ll have conflict at one time or other. That´s life, and that´s why different groups sound different.
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