 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: beejay
Date: 2007-02-23 23:35
I get an unwanted undertone when playing high notes softly, almost like an echo. It happens with both my mouthpieces and virtually any reed. Does anyone know if this is inherent with bflat clarinets, am I doing something wrong, or might I have a problem with my instrument (Buffen Crampon RC)? It also happens on my A clarinet, but much less and does not occur at all on my basset horn.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-23 23:44
I get it on my clarinets, especially on my Centered Tones around the upper register G up to C - the 'ghost' tones of the lower register can be heard.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: beejay
Date: 2007-02-23 23:49
Chris. That's precisely it -- especially when playing staccato.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-23 23:58
My teacher was the one that pointed it out to me when he heard me playing quietly - and he's an RC player.
I've tried altering the speaker bush to see if this clears them up (and doesn't muck up the throat Bb tuning) - I think if the speaker tube is on the wide side (larger diameter) then it's more prone to 'ghost' tones - but that's only a thought.
I used wax to fill the speaker tube in with, then opened it up with various sized twist drills (but all being smaller than the original diameter of the tube itself) to see if that helped. I ended up leaving the speaker tube the original size and living with it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: beejay
Date: 2007-02-24 00:11
Well that is reassuring. I must have been playing like this for years without realizing. I started with a new teacher recently, and she brought it to my attention.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2007-02-24 07:18
beejay wrote:
> I get an unwanted undertone when playing high notes softly,
> almost like an echo. It happens with both my mouthpieces and
> virtually any reed. Does anyone know if this is inherent with
> bflat clarinets, am I doing something wrong, or might I have a
> problem with my instrument (Buffen Crampon RC)? It also
> happens on my A clarinet, but much less and does not occur at
> all on my basset horn.
Try reading:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1998/10/000872.txt
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-24 07:36
Good one Tony.
But after it was brought to my attention of the shadow tones, it made me cautious of them so I'd get myself prepared to do something about it before I played the note in question.
I've heard several recordings of different players where they get an audiable 'grunt' in the upper part of the upper register.
It's the nature of the beast, and one that can be tamed.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: luckyclarinettoenla
Date: 2007-02-26 02:16
Just my two cents, but I once had the undertone too. The answer, might be easier than you think-- tongue position and the angle of the horn in your mouth. Pull your elbows towards your mid-section, sit up straight and make sure you play tip to tip (tip of tongue to tip of reed). Better yet, experiment with standing vs. sitting down. I used to prefer playing while standing up because I perceived that I sounded better (which I did) when actually I had a better embouchure. I hope this works for you!
gary
Never fool yourself into believing that today's 'good enough' will do tomorrow!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mk
Date: 2007-02-26 20:38
you are absolutely correct about the speaker opening affecting undertones on the A clarinet Buffets. If the player found it unsuitable, I would replace the original speaker tube with a tube that I had copied from earlier vintage Buffet clarinets, and then adjusted it to suit the taste of the player. It worked pretty good, but again, it was a compromise to tame the beast. I have no idea if they ever ironed out the problem over the last 15 years, I remember getting quite a few A clarinets in the 80's that were pretty horrible. i have retired from clarinet for years now, so I cannot comment on 90's and above Buffets, I have no idea whats up with them
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-02-27 12:38
Tony, that's a helpful article. Thanx.
Do any modern composers work with clarinet players to set up clarinets deliberately to emphasize the grunt instead of get rid of it? I had a major problem with adjusting an old metal clarinet that grunted and even ciphered. It might be interesting to adjust it "wrong" on purpose, for special effects, although I didn't do it.
I don't know if clarinet players use that term--a cipher on a pipe organ happens when a pipe plays all by itself, without the organist touching a key. On a clarinet, what I call a cipher happens when I move around with the clarinet in my hands but not in my mouth. With a quick lunge or turn, or by swinging the clarinet, I can get a faint hooting noise just from air movement through the open tone holes, and can vary the pitch with fingerings. I've only ever encountered it with metal clarinets with the tone holes "on stilts".
When I went to the International Saxophone Symposium in Virginia last month, I was intrigued with the way some modern composers made use of non-blown tones. French saxophonist Philip Geis, in a bass sax recital arranged at the last minute when a quartet cancelled, made spectacular use of these tones in performances of music he composed for himself. He gets the tone simply by smacking the key down hard, without blowing. There's enough air in that big bore for the sudden push of that key slapping down to vibrate the column, loudly enough to produce a pitch the audience can hear--I was in about the middle of the hall and it sounded pianissimo, but perfectly clear. Couldn't wait to come home and try it! Discovered it's possible to do the same thing on contra-alto clarinet, although I haven't had much success with it on soprano clarinets--the tone is there, but what I've achieved is too quiet for someone to use in a concert.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
