 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-12-08 15:58
When I worked in DC I loved WGMS. I always looked forward to hearing it when traveling to and from the airport now that I live elsewhere.
Can't we prohibit little man Dan from buying it until the 'Skins have another winning season?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-12-08 16:04
It's sad to see so many of our smaller "niche" stations fall away because they aren't economical to operate with such a limited listener base. I know of only one classical station here in Arkansas to cover the whole state . . . of course that's not possible with FM's short range and FM's line of sight propagation path which loses out to our hilly terrain in many areas of the state.
So, classical music in this area is kept alive by a University operated station, an educational adjunct, which has students performing many of the operating functions, and, which is not so heavily dependent upon advertising revenue. I suspect that many of those 165 remaining classical stations are similarly operated by the academic community as "laboratories" for music and broadcast journalism majors. Most of the remainder are probably NPR stations.
We all need to suport them in any way we can lest we lose more of those stations to format changes and/or buyouts.
Eu
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-08 16:08
Here in Detroit we lost WQRS, our one and only classical music station, in 1997. We lost the voices of Jack Goggin, Dave Wagner, and others.
In 2005 a new station, split with daytime classical music and evening jazz, appeared in Detroit, WRCJ. Jack Goggin and Dave Wagner are on the airwaves again.
The station is associated with the Detroit Public Schools. run by Detroit Public TV. They get financial support from the public and it seems to be working out ...
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-08 16:12
Hi Everyone,
I wonder if something like this will drive more and more people to listen to internet steaming (I have either KPLU or accuradio.com on most of the time). Or is this just the time to really think very seriously about satellite radio like Sirrius or XM?
I used to think that I needed to live within receiving distance of a classical and/or jazz FM station. Now any location is fair game because:
1. Anywhere in the country, one can usually get 200 to 300 TV stations by cable or dish,
2. High-speed internet access is available more and more in remote areas, and
3. UPS and/or Fedex pickup and deliver just about anywhere every day.
HRL
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-12-08 16:39
This is bad news indeed. I grew up with WGMS and still listen to them when I'm in the area for work, and on the computer at home. They are one of the oldest classical stations on the air. Even with their format changes I prefer them over the local "classical" PBS broadcasts, which don't play much classical music. My experience with sat radio hasn't convinced me to subscribe. I could care less what the traffic is like in LA, Chicago, Houston........ and on and on, and I refuse to subsidise Howard Stern. Looks like it's KING in Seattle on the computer now. I'll miss Dennis Owen's pithy wit.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-12-08 16:53
Actually it's no loss at all! For maybe the past five years or more, since WGMS changed management and popular DJ Dennis Owens finally got fed up with the new format and retired, WGMS has become the "Top-40" or "smooth jazz" of classical radio -- they play nothing but the same old warhorses over and over, they talk incessantly (and meaninglessly -- the current crop of DJs are, frankly, total idiots when it comes to music), they never play a symphony in its entirety, they often don't identify the artist(s) after a performance, etc. etc. The station as it currently exists is worse than worthless in my opinion. Good riddance, WGMS! I'll continue to listen to either WBJC-Baltimore or WETA (public radio) when I can receive their signals (which unfortunately I often cannot).
Meanwhile, live classical music attendance in DC continues its long, steady decline, and I wouldn't expect any change in that trend. WGMS is just a blip on the local music radar-scope and I doubt anyone will even notice it's gone.
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2006-12-08 17:04
We're certainly fortunate in Central Texas to have one of the remaining eleven "totally" classical stations left in the United States. KMFA (89.5 FM) has good range, excellent programming, and they are now streaming via their website www.kmfa.org.
Tailwinds,
Lynn McLarty
Horseshoe Bay, TX
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-08 17:15
Hi Lynn,
I just added KMFA to my on-line links and am listening to some lovely choral music. Thanks for the tip.
Keep the pretty side up!
HRL
DS, if we could only get you to express yourself a little more. You are so shy!
Post Edited (2006-12-08 17:16)
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-12-08 18:39
Hank, I think that David, in his Quixotic quest just to be different, doesn't express his feelings about issues because he doesn't want people to stereotype him as a repair tech or mouthpiece maker. Eu
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-12-08 19:07
I also listen to KMFA while in the Austin area. In Abilene we have a small classical station (although they sometimes play easy-listening stuff) that is a non-profit affiliated with one of the local universities. KACU 89.1
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-12-08 19:29
I'm not sure what the point is in bemoaning the loss of the "free" classical or jazz radio stations. If they exist on advertising and are not economically viable, they are going away. Fair or unfair, it is simple economics unless it is a PBS station, in which case, if you want it, you should be sending them a membership fee (of which a "suggested" amount is usually between $50 and $100 for ONE station) to keep them on the airwaves, because their government grants apparently are not large enough to do so.
Two large U.S. companies -- both of which currently lose a lot of money -- are gambling that they can make classical, jazz, etc., viable (profitable) without advertising revenue. For $99/year, on satellite radio you get 3 or 4 24/7, commercil-free classical stations, a bunch of jazz stations, a lot of different kinds of rock stations, 20+ different news feeds (CNN, CNBC, etc.), some "unique stuff" (the Frank Sinatra channel, Oprah, Howard Stern), etc. If you want to support something -- and get a lot back -- you should be looking at satellite radio. For $99/year you get 150+ stations, most commercial free and several stations on each of the two systems are different classical formats. [You also get every major league baseball game on one of the systems and every NFL game on the other, not that any classical music lover could ever be interested in a sporting contest!]
As usual, a commercial product (satellite radio), costs less and is better than a government-supported public entity (PBS).
And yes, you can buy a portable satellite radio receiver for a couple of hundred dollars, about the size of a box of clarinet reeds, that can be moved between your office, home (and hooked into a stereo system), and automobile.
Land-based broadcast stations are "so yesterday." The two satellite systems are national, without commercials, and relatively inexpensive. Support the satellite stations and someday we might get 300 channels for $99/year instead of just 150!
George
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-08 19:38
ghuba wrote:
> For $99/year you get 150+ stations, most
> commercial free and several stations on each of the two systems
> are different classical formats.
...
> And yes, you can buy a portable satellite radio receiver for a
> couple of hundred dollars
And, to hack up an apocryphal story, for those that can't afford it ...
"let'em eat cake."
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-12-08 19:46
I can't afford a Bentley; does that mean that I am somehow discriminated against by "the Man"? I don't think so.
If you want something that most others don't, then it's up to you to create the demand, not the government. Classical music (and jazz, and country and western, and rap) are not entitlement programs, they are commodities.
Anyone who goes around playing a three thousand dollar piece of wood topped by a hundred dollar piece of rubber and chips of ultra expensive grass shouldn't have any trouble raising a C note a year for a satellite receiver...
In some southern states, the PBS system stations maintain "repeater" transmitters all over the state. So, while the stations might all be broadcasting the same programming, they offer effective coverage through the multiple locations, mountains or not. Mississippi is one, and we have encountered others over the years.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-12-08 19:51
George, my very point regarding the PBS (or NPR) stations when I said we need to suport them if we want to keep 'em is that we should pay the "dues" to join the support group/foundation/etc. that sponsors the classical station in out area. The University-connected classical station we have down here is a PBS affiliate - recommended "dues" are $50, and worth it . . . what % of listeners pay?
I don't know what the long term future holds for FM stations - maybe our classical and other PBS/NPR stations will end up among those 300 satellite channels. ??
Mark, I'll have a slice of German Chocolate, please.
Eu
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-08 20:27
George,
Your "so yesterday" was too much. LOL.
One service that satellite radio does bring to the listener is reception in areas that are vast and unpopulated (NE, SD, ND, WY, western AZ, eastern CA, and other similar locations). In fact, going between Toledo and Omaha on I80 presents many hundreds of miles of limited FM reception and too many miles for AM talk; both can get pretty boring.
HRL
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-12-08 20:52
Terry, hope we don't have an "Abilene Paradox" situation here, as I think we are in agreement, but just aren't managing it well. I guess, however, Mississippi is ahead of Arkansas on installing repeaters to spread classical radio hither, thither, and yon, but there just isn't enough demand among the C&W and Bluegrass oriented populace in these here hills to justify it.
Interestingly enough, the TV side of the PBS house has "repeater" stations all over the place. Vat giffs? They rarely offer any orchestral music, operas, ballet, etc, unfortunately, but then it won't be forthcoming where there is little or no demand . . . Regnat populii
There are always plenty of music outlets that offer us isolated folks CD's of classical music and trusty old Kultur up in NJ to provide our opera and ballet DVD's.
Eu
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Author: Phat Cat
Date: 2006-12-08 21:15
Hank:
"...areas that are vast and unpopulated..."
As opposed to areas that are populated and vast cultural wastelands. I find XM much more listenable than the NYC "music" stations.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-08 21:54
Phat Cat,
Great comment.
Actually, having lived in NE for many years and after spending a great deal of time in SD and selected other Upper Great Plains areas, culture is great but the population very small per sq. mile. Huge areas in those states still qualify as frontier lands. Great people are evident everywhere, but there are just not enough of them to support PBS, NPR, and similar broadcast outlets (or an extensive cell phone network). Satellite radio is a natural.
You may be correct about your implication that population does not always bring culture. For a shocker, check out the graduation rates in Upper Great Plains states in comparison to more populous areas.
HRL
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-12-09 03:58
Gosh, David, you could be talking about Sirus satellite radio's classic channels.
I drive with my CDs --usually listening to the pieces I'm working on.
Bob Phillips
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Author: rgames
Date: 2006-12-09 18:59
I guess I'm on the fringe on this one but, even as a lover of classical music, losing the station doesn't bother me because I only listen to the radio when I'm driving. And I find it very difficult to listen to classical music while driving (ambient noise level too high - you wind up with no dynamics because you're constantly adjusting the volume).
But to replace the programming with Redskins broadcasts? I guess Daniel Snyder wants to make certain that everybody has an opportunity to hear first-hand just how bad the Redskins are .
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
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Author: glin
Date: 2006-12-10 01:42
I suspect more folks aren't actually listening much to the airwaves anyway. With the popularity of mp3 players, and in-car mp3 capabilities in car and home stereos, user programmibility trumps airwave programming, IMHO.
The demise of classical music continues in the DC area. Tower Records, which used to hold the largest CD classical section within many locales (Alexandria, Fairfax, Rockville, DC, Tysons Corner) is closing out their stores. It's going to be a mp3/Itunes market for classical, or we'll have to go to internet retailers for classical. I've often thought about Sirius or XM, but I feel it's going to be Top 40 classical.
One of the problems with the classical format on the airwaves is advertising. The pieces are longer than other forms of music, and advertising air time is a necessity. Throw in the problem of a dwindling listener base, and you have a death spiral.
My friend, David Spiegelthal, states that classical music attendance is down in the DC area. I think it depends on the venue, musical organization, and publicity to be effective. A lot of it takes hard work, and maybe just a bit of good fortune. A friend of mine plays in a Bailika Orchestra. (Russian orchestra traditional instruments) She said the attendence, funds, and ticket/CD sales are constantly exceeding expectations. Not band for a group that just started several years ago. Not too long ago, the Fairfax Symphony, a local regional orchestra, was in serious $$$ trouble. They fired their marketing director, and appear to be getting back on track.
Here in the DC area, there are so many organizations competing for audiences. It's a listener's market, for sure. You have freebie concerts by the US military bands that generally draw well (free and professional grade performances). You also have diverse amateur choral, orchestral, and band groups that perform generally for free or charge a nominal ticket fee. Throw in the professional ensemble groups and ensembles, ..... it's a lot of competition.
Geez-sorry to rant. Happy Holidays!
George Lin
Fairfax, VA
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Author: DougR
Date: 2006-12-10 01:51
Something's getting lost here: Terry may be right that "Classical music (and jazz, and country and western, and rap) are not entitlement programs, they are commodities.".... but the AIRWAVES they're broadcast over are not. The airwaves do not belong to Daniel Snyder, whoever HE is, or Clear Channel, or PBS or Rupert Murdoch. The airwaves belong to US. Stations can be bought and sold, but the frequencies they broadcast over cannot. Those frequencies are administered by the FCC, awarded to bidders by the FCC, which acts in OUR name, because (I repeat) those frequencies belong to US. Station frequencies aren't awarded to the highest cash bidder; they're GIVEN outright, for a period of time, to whichever bidder the FCC decides best serves the "public interest, convenience, and necessity." In THEORY, that is.
So applying a strict market orientation to radio station programming ("commoditization" etc.) is a fallacy, because it does NOT apply. Again, theoretically. In THEORY, according to the Communications Act, the FCC , acting in the "public interest, convenience and necessity," could require a radio station to include X minutes per hour of news. It could require radio stations that change hands to be staffed locally, and include X hours per week of strictly local programming, instead of being run by computers and fed formula programming from a distant city.
The FCC has to approve the sale to Daniel Whoever-he-is, and if enough local residents mount a challenge to his application, (in theory again) the FCC (acting in the "public interest, convenience and necessity"--what a quaint, archaic phrase it is, unfortunately) MAY decide to deny his application.
Won't happen. Doubtful the FCC would deny a license based on the type of programming being proposed, nor should it. But the current FCC doesn't care if all the local radio stations in an area are owned by outside interests, programmed and broadcast robotically thru feeds from distant cities, and contain no local relevance whatsoever.
However, to repeat, the airwaves belong to US. And the FCC, again in theory, is supposed to manage those airwaves with a community service orientation, not a commodity or a marketplace orientation.
Whew. Sorry to be so long-winded, but public resources, like the airwaves, do NOT belong to the rich and powerful and well-connected...unless we ourselves allow them to be given away.
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Author: Tode
Date: 2006-12-10 03:58
As someone from the younger generation, I am upset to see this station go. It's one of the few radio stations I actually listen to (at home and on the internet via the WGMS website). It will be sad to see Dinner at 8 vanish (a wonderful full hour of music). Granted, sometimes I have gotten rather annoyed at the lack of variety in the playlist. Somehow I had a feeling that this would happen, but it's upsetting to see what's replacing it. I think the Redskins should win another Super Bowl (haven't done that sine '92. HA!) Then Dan Snyder can buy the radio station!
"The demise of classical music continues in the DC area. Tower Records, which used to hold the largest CD classical section within many locales (Alexandria, Fairfax, Rockville, DC, Tysons Corner) is closing out their stores. It's going to be a mp3/Itunes market for classical, or we'll have to go to internet retailers for classical. I've often thought about Sirius or XM, but I feel it's going to be Top 40 classical."
Being from the D.C. area myself, that's where I used to get many of my classical CD's because I couldn't find them anywhere else (minus the internet). It's amazing what the metropolitan area has to offer musically but it's also astounding the amount of music activities/stations being cut. Even school music programs are continually under attack (Fairfax County tried to cut numerous music programs when I was in grade school) These days, I actually listen to much of my classical music on the iTunes radio. They have a better selection than the radio, including loads of jazz stations. Baton Rouge isn't exactly known for their classical stations. :P
I can honestly see why this is happening, and I guess in order to continue to enjoy classical music, I'll have to resort to the internet or satellite radio.
~Sarah Todenhoft~
Geaux Tigers!
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Author: frank
Date: 2006-12-10 07:16
Helps solidify the argument that classical music is dead. It's just hanging on by a thread even in the biggest, most cultural US cities. Proves once and for all the rock and pop is here to stay! Yes!
"Classical" music is mainly used in music schools so music teachers can make a living. Eventually, universities will take note and dump the music programs as well. I will not be disappointed. Even when I was in music school, it was a joke hearing the nonsensical music most "composer" professors wrote. In essence, the only people who liked most college professors music were OTHER college professors! You can all blame 12 tone and those who wrote music using mathematical equations on instrumental music's demise. lol Go figure on that one. Enjoy!
Post Edited (2006-12-10 07:27)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-12-10 14:22
I can't imagine how "we" survived before radio, tv and ipod.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-10 16:45
Hi,
In the old days, we listened to WOSU, WOUM, and on a good night were able to hear WKAR all the way up in E. Lansing. Most of these universities had broadcast major programs that helped staff the broadcast. Until PBS and NPR came along, we thought we were very lucky to have such listening available.
As Mark Twain said "the report of my death was an exaggeration" and so is the reported death of classical music.
HRL
PS WGTE-FM here in Toledo is going very strong.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-12-10 17:01
Lucky us (Belgians/flemisch), we still have, side by side 'state radio and tv' and 'commercial' channels.
One of the state channels is Klara a classical radio (also into all kinds of arts).
I don't know the coverage (between 2 and 5% of flemisch population), but still here, and most likely to stay. None of the commercial stations go for classic because it seems not interesting. Would be nice though to see what a typical Klara listener is spending (I guess more than average).
Funny though is that, when given the change, and if well governed, the state radio/tv is able of surviving, they even seem to be able to become the biggest., and ... keep up the good work for us classical people.
So actually we have a funny 'open market' system.
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Author: SolidRockMan
Date: 2006-12-11 12:09
Sounds like we are very fortunate here in Ireland - the public service broadcaster (RTE) offers nationwide (albeit across a rather small nation!) the very excellent Lyric FM. I'm happy to report it is going from strength to strength.
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Author: Adrian
Date: 2006-12-11 13:01
I have REal Player on my Mac (free application). I can get great streaming classical music from all over the world--UK, Germany, Canada, Russia, Latvia, Ireland, Scandinavia, Hungary, etc. I also often listen to the fine station in Baltimore.
For the most part, the sound quality is good to very good. Just connect some speakers to your computer, and you're all set.
This is probably the future, guys.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-12-11 13:45
While it is true that the airwaves here in the US of A belong to all, for the greatest part the content broadcast over them is still privately generated. The market-like situation that is tolerated by we the people ensures that those who have the capital and the drive will be the ones considered for the licenses, and (by normal business modeling) they are going to program what is in demand.
Hence, pop/top 40/stupid nostalgia rock/easy listening/C&W and every other form of music and content you want to name save classical/jazz are what you are going to get. The only thing keeping anyone from launching that great all art music station is the lack of any commercial demand for same, which tells you why the only such operations that survive are those that are subsidized by schools and (in small part) by the government.
It's nothing new, and while it has accelerated a bit by the advent of excellent reproduction through tape, records and CDs, the nails were driven a long time ago when mechanical reproduction of music became viable. I'd go out on a limb and say that the only music not mechanically reproduced (in whole or in part) these days is that offered by classical musicians. (Most pop groups use lip sync or "sweetening" in order to make the "live" product resemble the artificial one presented on the recordings- check things out "frontstage" (i.e., at the sound board) at a pop style concert for some real eye-opening disclosures.)
Push comes to shove, recorded beats out live for most people for the very simple reason that it is much more cost effective. I could go hear the Chicago Symphonic Orchestra at Raviniafest on a cool summer evening for about a hundred bucks, ice cream and beverage included. Or, I could buy all of the CDs necessary to replicate that same performance for the same amount, not have to travel and park and sit on the lawn, and have that music and more available for as long as I could keep the CDs in working order. Plus, I don't have to take a chance on bugs and heat or being spotted next to a drunken couple that can't hold their wine. (I"ve already got more than adequate ice cream on hand, thank you.)
At least, thanks to the American Federation of Musicians, an organization that many hereon may grouse about but don't support through the payment of dues, the musicians who record such stuff are getting something for their troubles. However, live stuff is rapidly pricing itself out of existence, and only the persistence of some misguided wealthy folks, for whom orchestra support is much like a family duty rather than a personal desire, do these groups survive in "live" format. If there's not enough private money to make a going concern of a symphonic orchestra in a city the size of San Diego CA, then classical music is in serious trouble.
Public broadcasting is an excellent barometer of what's viable and not viable in the way of music. Stuff like the Celtic music shows that haunt late night Sundays, the organ show that seems to crop up whenever I want to tune in, and Saint Paul Sunday Morning z(a show that takes itself far too seriously) are able to survive as viable operations only in such a subsidized environment. I don't begrudge people who enjoy them these bits of enjoyment, but I also can see that they are as dead as a buggy whip manufacturer without the life support that public broadcasting supplies.
Straight classical/art music ain't that far behind the likes of that organ show when it comes to commercial viability, and as much as I love and respect those who play it, to claim that things are other than what they are with such broadcasting is nothing more than whistling in the dark.
Satellite radio, for all of its negatives (for example, if I want both professional hockey and professional baseball, I would have to subscribe to both services, as they have split the coverage of these two sports between them), does offer a cost effective way to make the broadcasting of such music viable. The multi-streaming of different segments is one (finally, an all Strauss channel!), and the near universal availability of the signal is another. That it costs a hundred bucks a year seems to me to be a small price to pay for such utility.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: allencole
Date: 2006-12-12 17:26
I doubt that even profound listener involvement would attach classical music to the FCC licensing of a broadcast station.
Besides the frequencies from 88 up to around 92 MHz are set aside for educational, religious, public radio, etc. Getting a station on the air is no picnic I'm sure, and--Terry so correctly points out--what you're hearing on NPR and what you're seeing on PBS is a telling example of that the public broadcasting market will bear. (How many Lawrence Welk reruns have I seen vs. Evening at Pops?)
Last night, I tuned across what I think was a "Celtic Woman" production on the TV, and---thanks, PBS--I immedately reached for a very thick book to read. (and it was very enjoyable, at least by comparison)
How many times and ways are we going to remake "Riverdance" with listener contributions?
As we've also discussed here from time to time, even school music students who play classical music as part of their curriculum for 7-9 years aren't interested in classical music. Perhaps these satellite folks are the answer. Just like the internet allows us to unite here as clarinet players, cable TV and satellite radio may allow our widely dispersed classical music fans to keep the music being broadcast. But don't count on commercials to pay for it. We're gonna have to pony up one way or the other.
Allen Cole
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2006-12-16 17:42
Well, it sounds like the music may not be totally lost. WETA may switch to a classical station:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/15/AR2006121501895.html
Post Edited (2006-12-16 17:43)
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-12-16 20:11
I don't want to hear any more pokes at Lawrence Welk...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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