 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2006-08-29 01:28
I play with a group of flutes (on clarinet), sometimes as part of a trio, sometimes as part of a quartet. These flutists are quite good players, but we have a difficult time tuning. When we tune with a meter, they roll in or out to get the desired pitch.
An outsider suggested that I provide the tuning note, and that they tune to me. We try to tune three octaves - but the rolling in and out starts again, and I really don't feel we making effective progress in this area.
We had a performance last weekend. We played in a warm, humid room the first half, then had to walk out into the cool air and back into another warm, humid room to swab and tune, then return to the performance space by walking through the cool air again. I was really chasing their pitch for the rest of the performance. Would a click barrel be a good solution here? I've read various opinions on this board. I'm wondering whether I'd be clicking all over the place trying to match the flutes.
Sue Tansey
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2006-08-29 02:09
A click barrel might help if the problem is overall pitch changes.
I find the largest problem with playing with flutes is how their pitch tends to rise with volume and clarinets do the opposite. The same thing applies to higher and lower ranges with the two instruments having a tendency to go the opposite direction, pitch-wise. If they are good players, that should not be a problem, but it is them against you in this case and it sounds like you are losing.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-08-29 11:08
I agree with John (as a player of both).
It is much easier for a flute player to humour pitch than it is for a clarinetist.
Therefore, if you are playing in areas of different temperature that is messing with pitch, and you don't have a keyboard or other fixed pitch instrument involved, and the flute players are good players, then part of being a good flute player is adjusting to the pitch of a less flexible instrument, in this case you.
Unfortunately this is not part of the nature of many flute players. Many of them, even if they are otherwise very capable, seem to 'know' that their pitch is right and everybody else is wrong. In reality, no pitch is 'right' unless it blends well with the other players.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-08-29 11:32
I can barely play in tune with only one flute player!
Gordon wrote: "Many of them, even if they are otherwise very capable, seem to 'know' that their pitch is right and everybody else is wrong."
and that's why!
OK not toally serious, I've played just fine and in tune with some flute players, but here is an example of flutism. In a trio I'm playing (flute, clarinet/bass clarinet, contrabass) the flute player (leader) sometimes complains about us not playing in tune, so he decided to tune with a tuner for a change. After we tuned (I tuned last) I kept the tuner turned on and on my music stand. The same notes weren't in tune again (and a few times in the past he pretty much implied it was my fault....) so when he played his part alone (mostly slow notes) I looked at the tuner and it moved all over the place, sometimes over 20 cents, sharp or flat (depending on the note). When I very politely explained this, he just said to forget about the tuner and for those notes just tune to him.......
Post Edited (2006-08-29 11:41)
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2006-08-29 13:53
When I said "but it is them against you in this case and it sounds like you are losing", I didn't intend to imply that it was time for a tuning fight with flutes. Unless the players personalities are such that the subject can be reasonably discussed there is little to be gained by a battle of I'm-right-you're-wrong. Good intonation is part science and part attitude and sometimes you just have to be willing to go along with someone else's intonation - as a career orchestral 2nd player, that is pretty much my role.
On most notes it is possible to bend one way or the other with embouchure, alternate fingerings, or hole shading. What players need more than anything is the ear to hear and the flexibility to tune in many situations. A tuning CD method would go a long way to help!
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2006-08-29 14:01
And then there is the problem of flutes using vibrato and the clarinet not using vibrato. Sometimes the clarinet needs to use a small vibrato with flutes not only for tuning but also for tonal blending.
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2006-08-31 00:22
That vibrato point is well taken and that is a good thought. It's true, there are some individuals who know when something is out of tune, they just can't hear how or why. I do adjust as much as I can. It makes it more difficult that I'm often playing in my lower register, and it tends to be quite sharp. Is there a way to shade that note?
Sue Tansey
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-08-31 02:54
And the flute players who use a wide pitch vibrato, are like a vibraphone, very difficult to sound in tune with, unless you can synchronise with the pitch vibrato.
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Author: clarinetmaniac101
Date: 2006-09-02 02:13
This is what my friend who is a flute player has to say about this topic:
"Flutists SHOULD NOT tune rolling in/out the headjoint. You should control the pitch with the air stream. If you think you are flat you should use more pressure and faster air NOT roll out. Rolling in/out makes the tone quality change and even if you are doing it just for tuning purposes it can change how the octaves will play in tune with eachother. If the flutes are playing a note in unision or a difficult chord there should be little to no vibrato so it will be more in tune, as vibrato usually sharpens the pitch on flute."
Rashad
*clarinet
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