 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-05-09 22:27
G'day all
I was just wondering if anyone could please share their practise methods with eveyone here as I'm very curious as to how everyone practises effectively (or not).
I have this awful problem where I'll be working on something, and I'll think to myself "That'll do. I know the notes, what more is there?" whereas what I really need is to be more meticulous, methodical, and thorough. Yet I somehow can't do this. And at the end of the practise session, I feel very satisfied because I can technically play the piece, but I soon get a feeling of guilt over what I didn't do.
For example, I'm currently working on Debussy's Premiere Rhapsody. I'm playing it in my recital in just under four week's time. I could play it in my sleep; from a technical standpoint. But it's the details. I stop and work on uneven or difficult passages, but I don't stop and think "What does this marking mean, and how does it relate to this section when it returns later?" or "Why should this accent sound different to this one?" "Why am I changing colour here?" Then I suddenly find myself in a lesson with my teacher where I feel like I don't know the first thing about the piece, but I sure as hell can play it. There's no context or detail; just notes.
Where am I going wrong with this?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-05-09 23:08
I've posted this before, but here again is the 6 day practice routine for basic fundamentals as was originally laid out by Marcel Moyse:
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MONDAY - E major scale, F major scale, E minor scale, F minor scale, E whole tone scale, F whole tone scale, Diminished 7th chords starting on E, F and F#, Augmented chords starting on E, F, F#, and G, Dominant 7th chord on E resolving to Major and Minor triads on A, Dominant 7th chord on F resolving to Major and Minor triads on Bb, 3 octave chromatic scale in triplets starting on E
TUESDAY - F# major scale, G major scale, F# minor scale, G minor scale, E whole tone scale, F whole tone scale, Diminished 7th chords starting on E, F and F#, Augmented chords starting on E, F, F#, and G, Dominant 7th chord on F# resolving to Major and Minor triads on B, Dominant 7th chord on G resolving to Major and Minor triads on C, 3 octave chromatic scale in triplets starting on F
WEDNESDAY- Ab major scale, A major scale, G# minor scale, A minor scale, E whole tone scale, F whole tone scale, Diminished 7th chords starting on E, F and F#, Augmented chords starting on E, F, F#, and G, Dominant 7th chord on Ab resolving to Major and Minor triads on Db, Dominant 7th chord on A resolving to Major and Minor triads on D, 3 octave chromatic scale in triplets starting on F#
THURSDAY - Bb major scale, B major scale, Bb minor scale, B minor scale, E whole tone scale, F whole tone scale, Diminished 7th chords starting on E, F and F#, Augmented chords starting on E, F, F#, and G, Dominant 7th chord on Bb resolving to Major and Minor triads on Eb, Dominant 7th chord on B resolving to Major and Minor triads on E, 3 octave chromatic scale in triplets starting on G
FRIDAY - C major scale, Db major scale, C minor scale, C# minor scale, E whole tone scale, F whole tone scale, Diminished 7th chords starting on E, F and F#, Augmented chords starting on E, F, F#, and G, Dominant 7th chord on C resolving to Major and Minor triads on F, Dominant 7th chord on C# resolving to Major and Minor triads on F#, 3 octave chromatic scale in triplets starting on G#
SATURDAY - D major scale, Eb major scale, D minor scale, Eb minor scale, E whole tone scale, F whole tone scale, Diminished 7th chords starting on E, F and F#, Augmented chords starting on E, F, F#, and G, Dominant 7th chord on D resolving to Major and Minor triads on G, Dominant 7th chord on Eb resolving to Major and Minor triads on Ab, 3 octave chromatic scale in triplets starting on A
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This is the warm-up practice routine which I encourage my students to follow.
Combine the above with weekly selected etudes, technique, tonguing and repertoire work...GBK
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-05-09 23:36
And if THAT doesn't bore you to tears, nothing else will.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-05-10 01:20
Does your private teacher have anything to say on the matter? I've been given enough to think about by past teachers to last a lifetime of practice sessions. Given a few days in person, I could give suggestions.
Otherwise, lately my practice consists of...
Whole tones, scale, few numbers of Kroepsch, something from the Bach cello suites, then repertoire... perhaps play through once, work out some technical passages slow to fast with metronome, play through again.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-05-10 03:00
You said:
<But it's the details. I stop and work on uneven or difficult passages, but I don't stop and think "What does this marking mean, and how does it relate to this section when it returns later?" or "Why should this accent sound different to this one?" "Why am I changing colour here?">
Well, have you tried to stop during your "technical" practise sessions and ask yourself these questions??? Obviously you know to ask them.
Try playing each section different ways. Think about the recordings you've heard (and presumably studied). Ask why you like certain interpretations above others. Make a specific decision to play the piece a certain way in your next lesson. See what your teacher says at that point. Try playing the piece in a way that goes completely against what your "gut reaction" is.
Just some ideas from my very tired brain...
Katrina
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-05-10 07:20
Thanks Katrina, playing a piece going against my natural tendencies is a good place to start. GBK is way off what I asked; maybe I didn't explain clear enough.
Ok for example, in an orchestra rehearsal, the conductor knows what to rehearse and how to approach it. All I know is how to approach notes. My teacher fills me in on convention, style and offers feedback. So how can I take on a little of the role of conductor or teacher?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-05-10 07:35
You should maybe also take a look at Tony Pay's postings on "cup of coffee" moments, which warn against the danger of trying to put deep emotion into every phrase. I think - but maybe he will contradict me - that he might also be warning against the danger of over-analysing.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-05-10 10:09
David Peacham wrote:
>> You should maybe also take a look at Tony Pay's postings on "cup of coffee" moments, which warn against the danger of trying to put deep emotion into every phrase. I think - but maybe he will contradict me - that he might also be warning against the danger of over-analysing.>>
I think I was talking about something other than the question currently being asked.
I suppose there are two answers. One is the famous, "if you have to ask, you'll never know."
But that needs to be heard in a particular way: that of the Zen take on enlightenment, which is "those that know don't tell, and those that tell don't know" -- which likely means that 'being' something and 'describing' something live in different worlds, and while you're in the one you can't be in the other.
Similarly, 'if you have to ask' means 'being in the position of looking for answers'. Whereas the the space of performance is to be looking for QUESTIONS that you answer for yourself possibly differently each time.
A simpler response, though, might lead you further.
Music is seemingly mysterious because it's about relationships, not things. So it doesn't live in time or space. (For example, the relationship between my right and left hand, -- the difference between them, say -- doesn't lie in either hand or in the space between them.)
So a first simple step is to say that music is about INTERVALS rather than about notes. That's true horizontally -- looking at the recurrent intervals in the clarinet part in the Debussy is particularly generative; but also vertically -- how your part relates to the harmony is important. Think of the effect of the clarinet written Cb that's a seventh in the Cb major chord of the piano a few bars in.
Emotions come in because harmony is 'about' belonging and not belonging, and you can't get a relationship more emotional than that.
Let David Peacham's remark guide you a bit, though. It's a mistake to overanalyse musical relationships. That's going back to looking for fixed answers.
You want rather to open yourself to noticing them, open yourself to feeling them, and open yourself to recognising that they're like other relationships.
Tony
Post Edited (2006-05-13 20:42)
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Author: DougR
Date: 2006-05-10 14:32
Hey Morrigan.
with all due respect to previous posters, I think you're simply missing a "point of view" about the piece. By which I mean, a commitment on some level to play the piece YOUR way--"My name is Morrigan, I've been practicing the heck out of this piece technically, and now here's MY version of how it ought to go!!" In other words, finding a way to add your own personal, innate creativity to the written music, and feeling the satisfaction that comes from that.
I'm working on a couple of things at the moment (Abime des oiseaux and Cantilene) both of which have technical stuff that doesn't lay right quite yet. so I do the technical, zen, dissecting the smallest imperfections & smoothing them out, etc etc etc., playing passages over & over at half speed, etc etc.
But at some point, to keep from going nuts with boredom from rote practice, I've got to play through the pieces, start to finish, following the printed music to be sure but always asking myself, "Do I have anything to say here? OR here? or here?" It's kind of like deciding in the moment of playing the piece just how YOU want it to sound. I find that it awakens in me a certain passion for the music, and for getting it across to an audience, making it alive, for THEM and
for myself too. Which sounds like it might be the missing ingredient you seem to be looking for.
I hope this is responsive to what you asked. You seem to be wanting a more comprehensive INTELLECTUAL sense of how the piece fits together in toto, and I'm suggesting something slightly different--awakening a sense of creativity, passion, authority regarding the piece. Maybe you do this already, in which case, great.
In any case, hope this is useful.
BTW, you might check out Barry Green's book, The Inner Game of Music. It's full of ways to (among other things) bring music to life for the player, deal with performance terror, etc. etc., all from a somewhat Zen perspective.
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Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-05-10 15:18
Does the type of music you plan on playing dictate the kind of practice routine one uses? I mean if someone is planning on a professional carreer in clasical music I can understand a complex practice routine such as the one layed out in this thread but if someone is going to be playing jazz or non classical music for fun is a complicated practice routine needed? Heck I just play christmas tunes, a little Pete Fountain jazz that's not too complicated and I warm up on some simple scales. Of course I don't plan on playing professionally, just for fun and maybe with a ameture band later on.
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Author: Llewsrac
Date: 2006-05-11 01:10
I do not believe you have a practice problem but refinement issues. Refining a work is never easy nor is there an absolute method to achieve refinement.
Listen to the very best recordings available to you of the selection you are prepairing.
Record yourself, compare your recording to your professional recording phrase by phrase, measure by measure.
Recording yourself opens your ears to what you really sound like and is the first steps to learn how to refine music.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-05-13 13:06
DougR wrote:
>> "My name is Morrigan, I've been practicing the heck out of this piece technically, and now here's MY version of how it ought to go!!" In other words, finding a way to add your own personal, innate creativity to the written music, and feeling the satisfaction that comes from that.>>
Thing is, just as music is relational, people are relational too. Morrigan will find out 'who he is' with regard to the piece only by relating to IT, and ultimately who he is as a clarinet player after a process of relating to many great works.
As Bastian discovered in the Neverending Story, finding out 'what you will' isn't so easy, and involves looking outside to the context, sometimes for long periods. You can take for granted that YOU'LL be involved. You don't 'add' your own creativity -- it comes with the deal, because it's unavoidable.
(Actually, I'd rather trust his doubts. There's nothing worse than ignorant self-aggrandisement.)
Tony
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-05-13 14:17
You know I mentioned this at my lesson the other day. The interesting, and surprising, repsponse from my teacher was "That's why you're here, to learn these things." (Don't get me wrong, he's a GREAT teacher!)
I feel cheap turning up to a lesson, notes learned, and have someone teach me how and why we play the Premiere Rhapsody a certain way. I appreciate it and am thankful because in the space of one hour the piece changes quite a lot; I seem to be lacking the power to do that on my own. Or is it just down to experience? Working on the piece with several different teachers over the years? Do we ever learn anything for ourselves? I almost haven't and it doesn't feel... Right.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-05-13 19:21
Morrigan wrote:
>> in the space of one hour the piece changes quite a lot; I seem to be lacking the power to do that on my own. Or is it just down to experience? Working on the piece with several different teachers over the years? Do we ever learn anything for ourselves? I almost haven't and it doesn't feel... Right.>>
You may not need teachers -- but you do need to have listened to this or other music, and therefore other performers. (Teachers are just a more accessible resource.)
I don't know why this is surprising. After all, you've been engaged in incrementally constructing your very personality in the context of the examples of others all your life. (Children who grow up outside human society never learn language, and never, ever participate in the same way as those who do.)
A very large proportion of human culture has bootstrapped itself into existence over many generations, music included. Give it, and yourself, a chance by immersing yourself in it as much as possible. Liking one performance of something more than another, and trying to think why, is a good beginning.
Tony
Post Edited (2006-05-13 19:22)
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-05-15 04:59
YCL......the best jazzer I've ever had the privilege to play with spent every waking moment (away from the bar) playing scales and modes, over and over and OVER again. His solos came off effortlessly and always sounded brilliant. He never practiced exact solos although he did spend a lot of time playing changes over the aebersole tapes. He translated from any sax to clarinet to flute like each instrument was second nature. He also despised classical work.
Just because you're a jazzer doesn't mean you're not technically proficient (or even brilliant).
-Randy
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-05-15 23:21
I think that in general most people learn good interpretation in the following manner:
1. Learn the technical mechanics of a piece on their own.
2. Learn your teacher's interpretation.
3. Learn another teacher's interpretation
4. Do a little research on the work, study how other people play it (I generally don't recommend listening to recordings before this point), and draw from your own experience to create your own interpretation.
In my opinion very little of a musician's training should be spent on technique. Everyone should possess roughly the same level of technique, and it should be the common denominator among players. A true musical education is more a maturing process, although one that has very little to do with age. It's exploring the piece and the composer's intent and the development of a background from which to project your own ideas.
That being said, it is extremely difficult to speak through a piece of music if it's not ably under your fingers and tongue.
-Randy
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