 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kman1000
Date: 2005-12-14 09:07
Hey everyone, I found this webpage that seems to have ALL the scales that need to be mastered before doing any other advanced work with the clarinet.
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/Scales/index.html
On the this webpage is a chromatic fingering guide that is includes ALL the possible fingerings that one would encounter when learning ALL of the different scales in the above link.
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/FingeringCharts/izen.html
My question is:
Is the information on these two pages pretty much ALL the basic stuff that I need to know before I consider moving on in my clarinet studies?
I played clarinet for about 4 years in middle school but I haven't played it in about 5 years. I picked it up about 2 months ago and surprisingly I still remember some of my scales. However this time I'd like to get a super solid foundation again and continue to play. My goal is to find the essential stuff that I HAVE to be able to play well and learn that then move forward.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-12-14 10:44
kman1000 wrote:
> On the this webpage is a chromatic fingering guide that is
> includes ALL the possible fingerings that one would encounter
> when learning ALL of the different scales in the above link.
>
> http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/FingeringCharts/izen.html
Both the scales and the fingering chart are good starts; http://www.wfg.woodwind.org has a much more complete fingering guide, but the one by Joe Izen is the fingerings I think most of us start with.
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Author: kman1000
Date: 2005-12-14 11:21
I just went through and examined the more complete fingering website you mentioned, however I don't understand how I should proceed with these. Should I simply learn them all (the B flat clarinet ones of course) or are there certain ones that are essential? If I have to learn them all then that's fine as well. I just need a bit of clarification.
So with this fingering guide and the scales, these are all the essentials that I need to master?? Did I leave out anything? (chords, etc. or is this stuff for piano/guitar players?)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2005-12-14 11:59
I find the notes from the thumb + first finger of each hand (i.e. Eb & Bb via the bridge mechanism - also the altissimo G and C sound well on my instrument) to be particularly useful.
As well as technique, the other 'essential' on a clarinet is tone... to steer that fine line between 'strangled chicken' and 'honking goose' ;-D
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-14 15:31
I'm currently working my way through Carl Baermann Op 63: Complete Method For Clarinet. It is essentially a book of scales and arpeggios.
I find it tough and need to take it in small doses. I'm working one key signature a week.
A key to this effort is to have my teacher guide me through the exercises. He tells me which fingerings to use. The implication is that recognizing the scale/chord/arpeggio will help me know how to finger the sequence --hopefully quickly, while sight reading a "real" piece.
Some examples:
In the G-Major scale, you turn around at the altissimo G --after playing the F#. So, you play the G by adding the right hand Bb/Eb Trill Key to the RX|0x0|000 fingering for F#.
Om a rising G-Major arpeggio, You go from altissimo D to G. Finger the G as
RX|x00|xx0|Eb pinky, (or, on my Buffet: RX|X00|XXX|Eb --because its in tune).
In the E-minor scale (one Sharp), it's handy be be prepared to slide your right pinky from the D# to the B so that you can hit the C# with your left pinky and then get the D# again with your right pinky. (Unless you're smart/lucky enough to have a left hand Eb/G# key on your horn).
Note that these are just some of the things I've picked up while going through only CM/Em, GM/Fm and FM/Dm.
Secondly, I'm being led through Fritz Kroepsch: 416 Progressive Daily Studies For the Clarinet. I'm in book 1 (167 Excercises). These are cruel. They augment the Baermann by providing challenging uses of the scales and arpeggios. Kroepsch provides a couple pages of exercises in each key. Again, there are fingering tricks --that my teacher shows me as we go along --at the rate of about 3-lines per week.
My expectation is that he's having me do what will ultimately improve my playing. One example: "Pick out the middle line B in Aminor passages with the right pinky."
In short, the reference material is necessary; but guided through it will make it more useful.
Bob Phillips
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Author: kman1000
Date: 2005-12-14 23:27
Hey Bob Phillips, you have the Baermann book correct? This is one of the books I've been looking for. I decided to try to relearn my scales by the scales on that webpage since I wasn't able to locate that book in the past. The scales in the link that I posted are the exact same scales that are in the Baermann book, right? Since I found those scales I didn't see any need for the Baermann book. I hear that book is really good. Since you have that book, is there any other "essentials" that you feel I have not included that should be mentioned? (arpeggios, etc. ?) I'll do a search for all clarinet arpeggios now. Oh and by the way, I'm also teaching myself everything that I learn. I can't really afford a private instructor so self-guidance is a must for me. just FYI
Post Edited (2005-12-14 23:28)
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Author: kman1000
Date: 2005-12-14 23:44
Here is a required list of things that have to be done to audition for Air Force band. Does this pretty much cover everything? I don't quite understand what it means when it says "using a variety of articulations". Also the link that I posted has all the scales that are mentioned here, correct? Anyone know of any links for all the Arpeggios?
"Perform all scales and arpeggios from memory, using a variety of articulations, throughout the full practical range of the instrument (three octaves where possible). Minimum tempo for all scale and articulation forms is 16th notes at Quarter note = 100.
* Diatonic scales: Perform all major, melodic minor and harmonic minor scales.
* Chromatic scales: Perform the chromatic scale from chalumeau E to altissimo G.
* Arpeggios: Perform augmented, major, minor, fully diminished and dominant-seventh arpeggios."
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-12-15 00:30
EEBaum wrote:
> I wouldn't say you need to master the scales before doing
> advanced work with the clarinet. They can be done in parallel.
>
Not to mention that music isn't always simply in scale form. Scales/arpeggios help when you see them IN the music, but there's a lot of other stuff going on in music. So you could learn your scales, apreggios, etc. and then STILL not be a good musician.
Think about how you first LEARNED the clarinet (or any instrument for that matter). You learned a few notes, and then put together "Mary had a Little Lamb". And later on, you kept whatever notes you had, and learned about different rhythms and how to syncopate and you played, "Mary had a Little Lamb, CHA CHA CHA!" (with a spanish flavor). Life (at least for me) could get very boring if you didn't work on other things in addition to scales.
As per the variety of articulations, I can only think that they mean that you should be able to slur/tongue the scales in different patterns. If you are thinking about auditioning for them, shoot them an email and find out exactly what they mean by that. Otherwise, this would be my logical guess. Basically, be able to pick and choose which notes to slur and which to tongue within a scale without losing the meter, losing your place, or losing your musicality.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-15 03:26
Yes, I have the Baermann. I've found that most shops "can order it." I was lucky enough to find a store with several in stock.
The publisher is Carl Fisher.
www.carlfischer.com
Here are the catalogue numbers:
Baermann: 033, ISBN 0-8258-0215-6
Kroepsch: 0312, ISBN 0-8258-2563-6
Rose: 0339 (Marked 17015_32) (no ISBN Number)
The Rose 32 Etudes for Clarinet is a pretty cool compendium of challenging stuff. Some can be made to sound pretty good, and they are all finger tanglers for me. Carl Fisher also has a CD accompaniement --that gets bad-mouth reviews. Evidently, it "gives away" some of the stuff that our predecessors had to figure out for themselves --and deprives us from a large part of the learning experience.
All part of the conventional clarinetting pedagogy.
BUT, I stick by my guns: hire the pro; get the guidance; save yourself from making wrong habits permanent parts of your playing.
good luck, too.
Bob Phillips
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-12-15 03:56
Bonade used the Rose 40 and Rose 32 as the foundation of his teaching.
He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that those books contained 90% of the preparation one would need to be an orchestral player.
The old 1913 Carl Fischer version of the Rose 32 is a mess. It has been reprinted so many times that the notes from the original plates (which probably weren't great to begin with) have become blurry, smudged and in some cases almost unreadable. At times, the lines of the staff completely disappear. The poorly thought out spacing and visual layout by today's standards is unacceptable.
The same mistakes and typos have been reprinted for almost 100 years. It is an annoying edition to play out of, to fix, and teach from. It is clearly a case of "you get what you paid for."
If you want to torture yourself and use the older Carl Fischer edition, most of the errors and inconsistancies in notation are painfully obvious and don't need listing. There are too many to count and not worth the effort involved.
Now for the good news:
Carl Fischer recently has published a "revised and corrected" edition of the Rose 32 by Melvin Warner. There is no comparison between it and the older 1913 version which in my opinion should now be permanently discontinued. (Why it is still being published (?) is a mystery) This is the one to have if you want a Carl Fischer publication of the Rose 32. It does differ slightly from the Hite edition, which is also beautifully printed but suffers at times being over-edited.
However, both are fine in their own way and are certainly worth having in your personal library.
Now if only all 3 editions could agree on the first note in measure 8 of Etude #27 ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
...GBK
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-12-15 04:07
Hite's edition of Baermann Book 3 (which was previously called "Third Division" in the Langenus edition) places the exercises in a more logical sequence, by key.
The Hite edition removes some of the extreme high register notes which were found in the Langenus edition, making the exercises a little easier on the fingers (and ears).
My only small complaint about the Hite version of Baermann III is that he did not include the very useful Diverse Chord Study (Exercise #7 - p.30 and p.31) from the Carl Fischer version...GBK
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Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-16 12:10
Scales are the foundation of (almost) all music so that's the best place to start and it's kind of a never-ending story. You can continue to increase the range on your major scales as a way to include new altissimo into your range and you could literally never be done altering your scales.
As far as books go, I like the Baermann. It's got what I need for every one of my students and a little something for me too. The Rose 32 is great, but I think I'm burnt out on it right now. Maybe after a long break from them I'll what to get back into them. 9 years of the same book gets old pretty fast.
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Author: kman1000
Date: 2005-12-17 13:32
9 years w/ the same book!!?? Wow! Cool advice everyone, Thanks!!
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Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-17 13:38
Yes, everybody loves the Rose and Bonade may be right that it contains 90% of the preparation one needs. But it sucks when all of your teachers love that book. No wonder I'm a freak and like SCALES!!!!!
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-17 17:15
I should have made it clear in my earlier comments. I have not tried the Carl Fisher accompaniments to the Rose Etudes. I have no background upon which to comment on the utility of the accompaniment CD.
OTHERs here on the BB have expressed the complaints I parroted, apparently feeling that the old way of sitting alone with the manuscript and working out the musicality is the appropriate way to use the Rose 32.
I'm doing it with guidance from my very competent and trustworthy teacher.
After working through the first 1/4 of the set; there are two that I choose to play with a different edge than recommended by my teacher. If I had any artistry of my own, I'd lay it to "artistic differences."
thanks
Bob Phillips
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-12-18 04:13
Big ditto on the new Rose 32. I can't believe that it has taken this long to get that essential book redone and readable.
I also like the fact that the origin of the etudes are addressed. None of my private instructors in high school or college gave me correct data on that subject.
I hope that Carl Fisher will start revamping some other moldie oldies in the near future. They have certainly stood the test of time and deserve some reexamination by today's best & brightest.
Allen Cole
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