 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-12-07 00:57
My Leblanc plays at exactly A=440. Often my orchestra raises pitch and it leaves me struggling to reach them. I do not have this problem with my R13 A. I can a more relaxed embouchure on that instrument. My repair tech told me that he could shorten my barrel and that lots of clarinet players do this. Is this a safe thing to do? Its tough to find custom barrels for a LL.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-07 01:15
Shorten it. Eeek. I'm not a repairman, so I don't know if that's possible or practical or smart, but the thought of it gave me the willies.
Though this may not be in your budget I would suggest simply purchasing a shorter barrel.
The good Dr. Segal (clarinetconcepts.com) frequents the board and he may be able to help. Clark Fobes also makes great products and is very helpful.
Happy hunting
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bnewbs
Date: 2005-12-07 01:31
I have not heard of shortening s bsrrel before, my tech certainly would not recommend something like that. Walter Grabner can custom fit a barrel for you, his site is www.clarinetxpress.com. It's worth checking out, great mouthpieces as well.
Ben Newby
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-12-07 01:39
Too much work.
Possibility of ruining otherwise good barrel.
Recommend purchase of second, shorter barrel for screeching-high orchestras.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2005-12-07 01:43
I once had Albert Alphin shorten a barrel. It was a barrel that played well, but was a tad too long when the instrument was cold. He did a great job. It didn't take too long and ended up working very well.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-12-07 01:54
Shortening a barrel also involves deepening the socket for the mouthpiece and upper tenon if equal amounts are removed from the top and bottom - which is the optimum approach. Depending on how the bore of the barrel is tapered you can possibly ruin the effective taper of the bore of the barrel and therefore the performance of the barrel - perhaps not. With multiple taper barrels it is a crap shoot as to the effect of shortening one taper or another. The best approach IMHO is to get a properly reamed shorter barrel.
L. Omar Henderson
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-12-07 03:24
What Omar says about the tapers (if they exist on the particular barrel) is correct.
But these are high-echelon ideals. They can be rather pedantic for the casual amateur player.
I have shortened barrels for customers and they have been very pleased. Often the customer has kept the standard barrel, and got the mod done to a cheap replacement.
I made a special collet-device for holding a barrel central in the lathe chuck, and the job is a quick one, taking only a few minutes. With the normal care that a technician must take with everything he does, there is no risk of wrecking the barrel in the sense of splitting it or making it unplayable.
IMHO
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-07 05:07
Thanks, Patton (bass9---), for conjuring me up from my lair.........
Taking one mm off is not so bad, and it is commonly done.
It has be said that more than two mm is not a good idea.
Shortening should be done on the mouthpiece receiver end of the barrel.
A taper (if employed) can then be reconstituted. (Taking material off of the upper joint socket end could potentially widen the outlet of a taper barrel, and material can not be replaced).
A shortened barrel might require tuning rings when you have to pull it out.
An alternative is to have a spare barrel of appropriate dimensions.
Before you do anything drastic, check the gap between the mouthpiece and the bottom of the receiver. It should be flush.
If there is a gap, the socket might not need to be deepened, only the facing that abuts the shoulder of the mouthpiece.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2005-12-07 05:10)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2005-12-07 06:59
Why not shorten the mouthpiece tenon? Or, would that do horrible things to its acoustic/intonation properties?
I've never attempted shortening a mouthpiece. I realize, of course, that the shoulder would need to be cut back as well.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b _
______________
p.s. to Gordon: Could you describe your collet devise? I'm contemplating making an eefer barrel, a personal project, and your collet might be just the thing to get the job done. I don't believe there's significant enough taper to be a consideration with this little stinker 
Have an Atlas 6" with both three jaw and four jaw chucks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-12-07 11:21
"Gordon: Could you describe your collet devise? "
Basically it's a steel cylinder.
Length = 35 mm
OD = 39.7 mm
ID for the first 12 mm of the cylinder's length = 32.3 mm
ID for the rest = 36.4 mm.
It has a single slit along the length, about 6 mm wide.
I have lined the inside with quality agglomerated cork (Hycotex or Techcork type), 1 mm thick where the OD is smaller, and 1.5 mm thick for about 14 mm of length from the other end with the larger ID.
I jam the barrel inside, then clamp the cylinder in the lathe jaws. Every time I have used it, it has been very secure, and has centred beautifully. I guess there will be eventually be the exception, when a barrel is an unusual shape, and I will resort to placing a strip of thin cork around part of the barrel to adjust the fit..
If I made another, then I would probably make the wall 0.5 mm thinner at the small ID end, and increase the cork thickness by 0.5 mm.
I made another variant that is great for centring mouthpieces. I did this because a customer wanted two different (ID) tubular liners she could slide into her slightly bored out mouthpiece, to alter the capacity inside the mouthpiece to suit different clarinets, I think. With this holder, I was easily able to work with precision inside the mouthpiece on the lathe.
I keep making equipment for a special, one-off situation, for fun and challenge as much as anything, and then find the item keeps being useful for other jobs.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-12-07 15:15
In terms of finding another barrel...
I got a Click barrel to play with my accordionist. Her instruments are up around 444. The Click was the only barrel short enough for this. I didn't (and still don't) have the funds for a custom barrel, so had to go "over-the-counter." At the time I tried the Click at WWBW in Indiana, there was another adjustable barrel which went even shorter (I think down to 59 mm.) but it didn't fit the UJ tenon on my R13. The Click did, and so I got it.
Katrina
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-12-07 15:30
I use a click barrel on a plastic clarinet for outdoor swing band gigs and it works well. However, on my wood clarinets the click barrel sounds horrible.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2005-12-07 17:22
Thank you, Gordon. I believe you've given some quite valuable and useful information. I was thinking of something like that but couldn't get the "details" pinned down... now, I find you've already done it
Thanks again!
- ron b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2005-12-08 00:27
sinkdrain-i have the same leblanc(i was the one who originally urged you to buy yours). it is not hard to get barrels for it at all. i use a deg accubore 64 on mine and its a perfect match. dosnt cost much either. i agree the click sound lousey on these. try the deg .
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-12-08 01:36
I second super20dan on the DEGs. They are readily available and cheap on The Internet Auction Site Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned. I've gotten a couple of Accubore barrels there for around 20 bucks each and they work fine on various brands and models of clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-12-08 02:52
Thanks, just ordered an the Deg Eddie Daniels Round Sound Barrel at 65mm. Do these barrels produce a warm/complex enough sound for orchestra work?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-12-08 13:54
I second Ron B's suggestion re: shortening a suitable mp, and leaving the ?good? barrel alone, with the thought that the next owner may be very unhappy to "have a serious problem" with a good cl. Years ago [student], I had 2-3 mm? taken off my PM FB barrel [playing it with a glass mp] which didn't help me much in the upper clarion, and created problems in the throat tones, and I went to tuning rings ! A few years ago, I bot a [1920's?] Conn HR C cl, which was a bit flat [435?]. Its barrel was quite short already, so I had a machinist friend shorten 2 good Bb mps by about 2 mm, the H Couf mp was the best player, and I prize it both for bringing up the C for oboe substitution, and as a "higher" mp for older Bb cls, such as my CT and Dyn 2, in "sharp" company !! Just AM memories. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-12-08 14:19
Alseg said:
"Before you do anything drastic, check the gap between the mouthpiece and the bottom of the receiver. It should be flush.
If there is a gap, the socket might not need to be deepened, only the facing that abuts the shoulder of the mouthpiece."
I've always noticed that there is about a 2+ mm gap between the mouthpiece tenon and the bottom of the receiver. I play a B40. My LL barrel is 66 and through experimentation I find a 65 gives me just enough room to deal with sharp situations without losing the ability to play lower if needed.
I have an ED Deg moenig 65 barrel shipping to me. I'd love to be able to use my stock barrel since it was designed for my clarinet. But I am afraid of destroying it. Is taking down the shoulder of the tenon 1mm to make the mouthpiece go in more a dangerous operation? If there is a risk of it throwing the whole pitch of the instrument out of whack with itself, I'd avoid it.
...and if I don't take the shoulder down, is that gap in there OK?
Post Edited (2005-12-08 14:20)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-08 15:13
That is a HUGE gap
Experiment thusly:
Take a junky old (plastic ok) mpc, cut 2mm off the bottom and use that severed ring as a gasket or washer between your good mpc and the upper socket receiver.
What does it do?
If the resultant sound is prettier, consider using the tuning ring in this position. If it is too flat, then have a tech cut the socket facing only by a mm at a time. The sound should stay nice, but the pitch will come up.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-12-08 18:42
If one has a barrel that consistently plays flat, I can't see any harm in having a talented technician shorten it some at the lower end. Over the course of some 55 years I've had this done a number of times, and the results have been generally quite good. I can't see any benefit in hoarding a barrel that won't play up to pitch! Of course a good tech will observe all of the cautions expressed above.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2005-12-08 22:06
i would have gotten the barrel in 64 -not 65 . i havnt tried the eddie daniels model but i imagine it s ok . i have the original and the "dark" degs. i like the sound and responce of the original best and find it an improvement to the original leblanc wood barrel. i also have an old leblanc synphony model that i use for "legit " work and found it was sharp with its original barrell so i use my 66 from by LL on it . one cant have too many barrels it seems
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-12-08 23:18
I came up with the 65 by messing around with a 64 accubore barrel I own. My open G etc.. went a little too sharp when I play the 64 accubore. When I put in the 1mm tuning ring everything seemed to settle in for me. I like how the ED models look like a normal barrel and the moenig bore intriques me. I'm not sure what to expect but I can always return it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2005-12-09 00:53
If you have the correct equipment, shortening a barrel is a fairly easy procedure. Sometime the hardest part is removing the ring.
Quite often a barrel can be improved by shortening. Very often one or the other tenon socket is too deep and there is an unknown gap, between barrel bore and mouthpiece bore or upper joint bore. You would be surprised at how many unknown, undiscovered "gaps" there are out there.
Any one who makes replacement barrels should have the capability to shorten a barrel.
It's the "off brands" that can cause problems, as they might have non standard socket sizes.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
Holiday prices on new Buffet clarinets
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
