 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2005-11-23 16:16
I really enjoyed this new book subtitled "The Story of the Saxophone" by Michael Segell. The author interviews many fine players, mouthpiece makers and repair men associated with the sax and ties it together with his own attemp to learn to play. I thought I knew the history of the sax, but I learned some new things about the sax's invention (Sax's trials and tribulations)and the "Sax Craze" in the early part of this century. I think people interested in the sax will enjoy the book.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-23 17:56
The 'sax craze' in the early part of THIS century (21st) is the influx of cheap, poor quality Chinese instruments on the market, and having the name 'Selmer' associated with them.
Sorry FrankM, I couldn't resist that.
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2005-11-23 18:05
...I guess I meant the last century !
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-23 18:10
Again, I apologise for being flippant.
I'll have a look for it in Methvens as I'll be buying my mum a book for Christmas - I know she doesn't read these boards but I won't say which book I'll be buying her.
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-11-23 19:57
I don't know if it's true, but someone once told me that the saxophone was created in an attempt to improve upon the sound of the clarinet. I scoffed.
Then I went to my high school's musical (Les Miserables--it was excellent) and heard our first chair saxophone playing very serious, classical-style passages and they were played with extremely pleasing tone. I won't say it sounded better than the best clarinet sounds I've heard, but I will say that it sounded ALMOST AS GOOD if not AS GOOD.
A friend told me that saxophone is one of the easiest instruments to pick up and play, but one of the hardest to play very very well. Our saxophone player at school (who placed 1st at All-District auditions this year as a sophomore) must be working very hard. I really hope she makes All-State, along with several other friends this year. I've performed in Tan-Tar-A (the resort in Missouri where the All-State band and a big convention is held) several times now, and the people you meet are incredible and the things you learn are innumberable. And you can try really nice instruments!! 
Anyway, that's the extent of my saxophone stories. Keep the vibrato away from me and I'll say sax can sound good in classical music.
-Tyler
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-11-23 20:49
Well, unfortunately the vibrato is very much a part of the whole saxophone technique. Even in classical applications (and in the case of some players, especially in classical applications), the vibrato is laid on with a trowel.
I tend to play with perhaps a 25% vibrato (picking a number out of the air), while most real sax players are more in the neighborhood of 40%. Played that way by itself, a sax does sound a bit strange to a clarinet conditioned ear. But, in a section, the whole effect comes out sounding much better than its parts.
Sax originally "invented" the sax (a wedding of an improved version of the old keyed bugle and a clarinet mouthpiece, more or less) to offer a "unified field theory" correction to the military music of the day. The theory was that, instead of a mismatched pile of clarinets, oboes, flutes and bassoons, you would have a family of woodwinds that could play "even" with the field brass, harmonize with ease and be more rugged than the frail softwood instruments of the early 1800's.
That he succeeded all too well is reflected in how much better ten saxes sound than fifty clarinets when played in a field situation. It still comes out as marching band music, but it sounds a whole lot better, and it balances the brass much better in the bargain.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-11-24 01:33
Well,
I hate the racous sound so many saxes make these days, but the instrument is capable of making some really sweet tones.
Does anyone remember the clear obligatto passages of Frank Weir: Shoemakers Shop? Happy Wanderer? (soprano), Harlem Nocturne? (alto) Tequila (Bari)? Paul Desmond (widely regarded these days in my circles as a wimp)
Bob Phillips
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-11-24 01:40
Of course Paul Desmond started on clarinet. ;o)
I'm reading Doug Ramsey's "Take Five, the public and private lives of Paul Desmond" that came out this spring. One of my favorite passages has him writing to his dad:
“… playing tenor might wreck me as a clarinetist and alto man. In all the name bands in the country, nobody that plays good tenor plays good clarinet, and vice versa. In fact, the most terrific tenor men play very sad clarinet, indeed. And the really wonderful men, like Goodman and Shaw, play absolutely not sax at all…To get a beautiful, crisp, clear tone like clarinetists in the country have, and which I am going to get if it';s the last thing I do, you have to have a tight, powerful embouchure. But if you use that same embouchure on tenor, you get a thin, hollow tone, and you have trouble getting low notes. So you have to relax, use a loose embouchure on tenor—and your clarinet tone starts falling flat and whiny. Alto is a cross between them, just complicates matters more.”
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Neil
Date: 2005-11-24 04:08
sounds like I should switch over to tenor towards the end of a long performance
Post Edited (2005-11-24 04:09)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-11-24 04:17
I read the first chapter or so while I was supposed to be working (at Barnes & Noble... ) and found it very well-written and very interesting. I enjoyed (if it could be said) learning about Sax's young life in his father's shop and all the incidents he survived!
I don't have the time now during the holiday season to finish reading the book while I'm at work, though...I may have to go to the library!
Katrina
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-11-24 06:29
"The 'sax craze' in the early part of THIS century (21st) is the influx of cheap, poor quality Chinese instruments on the market, and having the name 'Selmer' associated with them."
I always thought sax craze is about how crazy you have to be to play the saxophone. Sure, you get tons of gigs, and tons of students, but no matter what you do, it will sound like a saxophone....
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-11-24 11:58
I hate to contradict one of my idols, Paul Desmond, but one terrific tenor player who also played terrific clarinet was the late Jimmy Hamilton. I got to meet him, way back in the '60's and got to tell him that his clarinet solos on Ellington's "Air Conditioned Jungle" were an inspiration to me when I was in high school.
Much later, when he was retired and living in the Virgin Islands, he recorded the "Clarinet Summit" LP with David Murray, Alvin Batiste and John Carter; I was gratified to hear that he hadn't lost his chops!
I had a friend from the Army Band over yesterday who had also been a student of Iggy Gennusa's, and we were amused by the "Devil's Horn" characterising Iggy as a "noted acoustician from North Carolina". South Philly ain't that far south!
Larry Bocaner
Post Edited (2005-11-24 12:01)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-24 12:33
There are people that play the clarinet and make that sound like a (badly played) soprano saxophone - now don't all start holding up your crucifixes at once!
I'll blaspheme even further by saying my main instrument is the saxophone, and I LOVE playing it - especially soprano and bari saxes!
My clarinet playing cannot be any more different though - I go for the symphonic sound rather than the weak, slack-jawed (and FLAT) sound some seem to relish, and then use an uncontrolled vibrato to boot. I flinch with every note I hear.
And I don't play soprano sax like it's a clarinet - that's because it's a saxophone.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-11-24 12:42
-------------------------------
A friend told me that saxophone is one of the easiest instruments to pick up and play, but one of the hardest to play very very well.
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It's one of the easiest to play very well too. However, none are easy to play well and all take at least a LOT of really hard work to play very well (years of hard work!).
Much, much easier than Clarinet, Flute, Oboe, Bassoon, Fr Horn and probably trumpet too.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-24 12:52
The beauty of playing sax is that once you're competent with the keywork it can get around the most ridiculous key signatures with ease, more than any other instrument.
Then master a good sound and you're well away! As I mentioned, I go for Pete King's alto sound and Michael Brecker's tenor sound.
I play bari (my main instrument) with a full, solid sound and not the buzzy, flabby sound some people use and keep using.
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2005-11-24 13:07
Agree...well how difficult it is depends on how good you wanna be anyways...
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-11-24 15:09
"and Michael Brecker's tenor sound."
A.K.A. the porn, elevator or mall sound.... Michael Brecker is the only person that can usually (but not always) get away with this sound
By the way, in case it looked like I'm a sax hater, I was kidding about what I said above. Eventhough I hope I never have to play saxophone myself, I actually like many saxophone players.
Post Edited (2005-11-24 15:30)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-11-24 16:57
I just hope that Michael Brecker will play again (he has been very, very ill).
Anybody know if he found a bone marrow transplant match yet?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-11-24 19:53
I don't like Kenny G's style - if you think Michael Brecker is commercial...
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-11-24 21:24
Chris P wrote:
> I don't like Kenny G's style - if you think Michael Brecker is
> commercial...
[We're not going to get into that. This thread has wandered long enough and is closed - GBK ]
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