 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-10-04 17:15
Does anyone know how long an Eb clarinet is (incl. mpc.)?
I just bought a 48 cm (incl. mpc.) - boehm system. The ebay photos looked like an Eb - with one single long body joint. I guessed it would be modern pitch as it is marked DDR so must be between 1945 and German reunification in 1990. I'll find out when it comes!
There was also a straight bass clarinet by F. Arthur Uebel which I did not win. Has anyone else come across a straight bass?
A straight alto featured recently - also Uebel
see:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.htmlf=1&i=193002&t=192589
Thanks
Malcolm
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-04 21:50
My Buffet R13 Eb is about 48.6 cm, my plastic Vito Eb is about 49.1 cm and my Richard Keilwerth (Boehm system) is about 48.2 cm - all including mouthpiece (Vandoren B44).
Check the barrel hasn't been shortened when you get it - all the German instruments I've seen and bought have had their barrels shortened a fair bit.
Malcolm, was there also an FA Uebel almost-full Boehm (w/non-artic. G#) Bb clarinet offered by the same seller? If so, how much did that sell for?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-10-05 12:01)
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Author: graham
Date: 2005-10-05 12:47
I have come across a straight Uebel bass before. This one has a 19mm bore which is very narrow for a bass. The tone was similar to a basset horn. Very nice but a little quiet.
I own an Uebel E flat and it is a very nice instrument.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-10-05 14:49
I believe (though not 100% sure) the correct dates for DDR (aka GDR) were 1949 to 1989. That might narrow your timeline.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-10-06 10:35
how does it play?
i remember trying out a pair of Uebel Boehm horns in 1985- i was too young to really be able to work out how good they were, but my teacher at the time thought they had good intonation. i remember the wood was very dense and they had a mirror shine on the bore.
you could have a very nice instrument there.
donald
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-06 11:12
Malcolm,
Was this the one advertised as an 'S-Klarinette' (as opposed to an 'Es-Klarinette')?
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-10-06 14:32
Attachment: klarinette-arthur-uebel2[1].jpeg (43k)
Chris P - the same seller had a full Boehm described as 70 cm. It looked as if it did have an articulated G#. It was unsold at the starting bid of €600. The one I won was merely described as 48 cm Boehm (natürlich - auf Deutsch) - there was no mention of the key (S- or Es-). Do you know why the German instruments have shorter barrels?
Donald - I'll let you know how it plays when it arrives - I've not had an Eb before so I shall have to buy reeds etc.
I've added an ebay photo for interest.
Malcolm
Post Edited (2005-10-06 14:37)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-06 15:01
The ones I bought (both by Richard Keilwerth) look like they'd been used in marching or town bands as the bells have scratches where a lyre would have been fitted, and the Bb (Oehler system except for the low F and E vent mechanism) plays around the 444Hz pitch with a German mouthpiece - and can be brought down to around 440Hz fairly evenly with a 1010 barrel and an A1 Vandoren crystal, and the Eb (Boehm system with LH forked Eb/Bb) has no real pitch centre I can determine - the tuning is dreadful on it being very flat in the lower register and almost a semitone sharp up top, but the barrels on both clarinets have been shortened before I bought them.
German instruments generally have a longer top joint and shorter barrel in comparison to French instruments - we usually have (on Bb) a 66-67mm barrel whereas German bore clarinet barrels are around 58mm, with a longer top joint.
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-10-10 07:06
Malcolm, what pitch is your Eb playing at? I'm the new owner of the straight Uelbel alto (made in GDR, between 1949 & 1955), and it plays at high pitch, somewhere around 450. I didn't realize that high pitch was still in use at that time. The shape of the keys on yours look very similar to mine, as does the ligature, the bell without silver ring, and the 2 toneholes closing with the F/C key.
Happy playing!
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-10-10 10:14
"i didn't realise that high pitch was still in use at that time"
ha- i've got a CD of me playing a recital in Germany with a piano that was about that sharp (A=445/450 ish)...... in 2002!
donald
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-10-10 16:17
Hi Joannew - I've just received the clarinet - it appears in very good condition with very little signs of wear. I do not have any reeds yet - but they are ordered. I'll let you know what pitch it is when they arrive.
The body, bell and barrel are a very dense black wood. The body is marked with an FAU logo and F. Arthur Uebel, Markneukirchen, DDR. The back of the body is imprinted UEBELKLARINETTE 811-751347. The mouthpiece, ligature and cap by P Strach WROCKAW - this is in Poland I think. I hope it is not high pitch. The length is 48.5 cms. to the tip of the mouthpiece. I am not good enough at German to ask the makers what age this is but I'll try and find someone who can - if we can find an email address.
If anyone has any more information please let me know.
Many thanks,
Malcolm
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Author: k_leister
Date: 2005-10-11 15:30
According to the serial number, I 'd reckon your clarinet was made in the 70's, the so-called 2nd generation of Uebel clarinets. The dense black wood bell without the silver ring is a sign of Wulritzer's influence. Herbert Wurlitzer clarinets got into fashion by the end of 60's. Then, many clarinet makers replaced the silver ring of the bell with wood, as Wurlitzer did (and does.)
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-10-11 18:11
The lack of silver bell ring on Uebel horns goes back at least to the early 50s. My alto was imported to the UK by Rudall Carte, who were taken over by Boosey in 1955.
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-10-13 16:14
Thanks for all the info. Well the good news is that after a few minutes warming up it is normal Eb pitch (A=440) but quite hard work to keep it in tune with itself - tends to play a bit flat. I'll need to practice - maybe buy a better mouthpiece etc..!
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Author: k_leister
Date: 2005-10-14 14:44
As far as I know the silver bell rings stayed there till at least the 60's, at least for my Uebel made in the 60's!
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-10-14 16:58
Well, my alto is a bit of an oddity anyway, with a straight wooden bell and narrow bore that takes a basset mouthpiece.
I'm really impressed with the keywork - so many fine details. Do your Uebels have these little tiny adjustment screws in the ends of all the pillars too?
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Author: k_leister
Date: 2005-10-15 05:10
oh yes.. the mechanics is awesome.... but that means you have to take a very good care of it, too!
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-10-15 10:15
Yes there are lots of adjusting screws on the right hand low E/F/F# pillars. I've not investigated them yet - what do they do?
Can you give any advice on what mouthpiece would be better than the P. Strach? I normally use a Hite Premiere or Vandoren 5RV on my Bb clarinet or a Boosey and Hawkes 1010 with a softer reed if I want a real loud noise!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-15 12:24
I use a Vandoren B44 on Eb, it's alright as a general upgrade mouthpiece and gives good results, but I would like to try some others.
The hardest part of Eb playing is the altissimo register, but it's just a case of practice. Mahler tends to like having the Eb playing a lot of sustained altissimo Gs in unison with the flutes and piccolo, so tuning up top has to be spot on.
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-10-15 15:44
Does anyone have suggestions of the best way to clean the bore, which has a distinct aroma of tobacco tar?
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-10-15 17:36
Yikes!
My alto case has been sitting open for the past month since it arrived (with the instrument covered only by the swab to keep off the dust) and the 'musty attic' smell has almost dissipated.
Check out the Doctor's Products - he has a wood cleaner, a pad cleaner and a case cleaner.
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-11-04 09:41
Back to this again - more problems! The original P Strach mouthpiece is not to my liking so I bought a Vandoren B44 mouthpiece for this instrument but the tenon is too long for the barrel by about 2 mm. The obvious seems to be to sand the mouthpiece tenon down - any other ideas?
Thanks,
Malcolm
Post Edited (2005-11-04 09:41)
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Author: graham
Date: 2005-11-04 12:40
My Uebel E flat (which sounds and looks identical to yours) uses a Selmer mouthpiece with no problems. It takes some while to warm up to A = 440, though. The upper clarinet register is very sharp, while the altissimo above E is flat unless closed fingerings are used. But generally it seems well in tune. I also have a Buffet mouthpiece but that is not so good (tone as distinct from tuning). I do not know if these mouthpieces have been altered at any time. It is worth persevering with it, as I think the tone of the instrument is better than average.
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-11-04 13:47
Thanks for the advice graham. I find that with the Vandoren B44 with the gap the clarinet is nearly a semitone flat compared with the P Strach mouthpiece. I agree, it takes a while to warm up to 440.
Unfortunately I cannot get the Vandoren off again - I had trouble with stiffness the first time so I lightly sanded the cork down applied grease and tried again - now it is bound fast - I need to find someone with a better grip to get it off! Maybe in the pub tonight!
Post Edited (2005-11-05 09:06)
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Author: graham
Date: 2005-11-04 17:35
This may seem a ridiculous point, but I trust you are using e flat mouthpieces?
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-11-05 09:08
Yes thanks graham. I am using a Vandoren Eb B44. But it is quite stuck now - I think I'll have to send it to my tech. to remove.
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2005-11-05 14:18
graham, how long is your Arthur Uebel Eb from bell to barrel - mine is 42.3 cms? I got the Vandoren mouthpiece off with a rubber kitchen bottle wrench. But the Vandoren is nearly a semitone flat compared with the P Strach Polish mouthpiece.
The Vandoren from the end of the tenon to the tip is 7.6 cms - the P Strach is only 7.2 cms. I only have one barrel and this is 4.4 cms. Even with the short mouthpiece it takes some time to warm up to A=440 - and then with a lot of lip control.
Any suggestions, anyone?
Post Edited (2005-11-05 14:34)
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