 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Lee
Date: 2005-09-28 18:49
What's you guess based on experience, how many wood clarinets develop cracks? Let's not include accidental damage (dropping etc.). I'd like to hear from tech's experience.
My limited experience hasn't been good, the first one I bought (and returned) was a used Leblanc Symphony, said to be crack free. It had a crack in the lower joint.
The second one, I am in process of returning, is a new Leblanc Infinite. It has a small crack in the lower joint third ring tone hole.
My teachers older R13 (late 60's) has a repaired crack.
I am inspecting each horn I consider under strong light and with a magnifying glass. There are areas that are not easily inspected with out disassembly, which I am not qualified to do.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-28 19:09
I must admit both my old Selmer CTs have a crack in every section except the barrels, the Bb (N69xx) top joint cracked through to the bore down to the 2nd (Bb) trill tonehole, but I opened that and ran ultra thin superglue into it, let it close back up and pinned it - all back in 1988, and it's never caused any trouble at all. On both, the bottom joint sockets are lined, so the crack ran from the socket ring down to the C/G tonehole and both bells split completely in half, but have all been glued together and the rings hold the lot tight. And I bushed all the smaller toneholes with PVC as well, so they're both completely airtight.
My current Series 9 Bb (1978) has a lined bottom joint socket, but cracked down the back to the level of the thumbrest, but I drilled out the bottom of the crack to about 3/4 the depth of the wood to prevent it spreading any further, and pinned it.
The Buffet Eb (1962) I bought has a split barrel from top to bottom, I sealed and pinned this, though there wasn't much room for error pinning as there's very little wood between the sockets to do this, but I managed it and this barrel is much better in terms of sound than the newer replacement one it came with. The bell was split in two places, but at the socket end, and this too has been filled, and the rings hold things tight.
I wouldn't worry too much about tenon cracks on the middle and bottom joint tenons, the R13 I'm overhauling has a crack in the middle tenon (right at the bottom and finishing under the cork, barely a quarter of the way up), but running thin superglue into this has worked.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-09-28 19:12)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-09-28 19:47
In 2002 I did a quick bulletin board survey to see if certain years and clarinet models stood out as far as having a higher percentage of clarinets cracked.
The sample was about 150 responders and at one time I compiled all the data. (I no longer have the final tally) I do remember that certain years of particular models did stand out as having more people reporting cracks, although I again caution you to be aware that the sample was small.
You can read the entire thread here and draw your own conclusions:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=65813&t=65813 ...GBK
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-09-28 19:57
i can't remember if i posted on GBKs thread....
out of 7 Clarinets that i've owned/played on a daily basis, 3 of them have cracked (one of them in both joints- that horn is still being played by a trad jazzer, and has a lovely tone)
donald
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-28 21:21
Going through about 40 clarinet players I know, I only seem to have seen 1 crack (upper part had to be replaced completely). Maybe some have minor cracks, but non seems to need repair.
(I've played/owned 4 myself, no crack sofar).
Most are Buffets,
Ofcourse climate is reasonably overhere, or maybe were just lucky ?
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-09-29 07:28
In our community band all the expensive clarinets seem to crack, mostly in the upper joint..
I take good care of my clarinets and have searched for solutions with technicians from various shops… They all came to the conclusions that I’ve done everything possible to prevent a crack…
My own clarinets:
Buffet Crampon RC 1112Z bought 1995
- Cracked upper joint 1995
- Warranty replaced upper joint 1995
- Sold 2005
Leblanc Opus II bought 2004
- Cracked upper joint 2004
- New upper joint 2005
- Current instrument
Other first clarinet player:
Buffet Crampon Elite bought ? One of the first elite’s available in the Netherlands.
- Cracked upper joint 1997
- Cracked bell 1997
- Warranty replaced upper joint 1997
- Warranty replaced bell 1997
- Current instrument
Other first clarinet player:
Buffet Crampon RC 1112Z bought 1994
- Cracked upper joint 1994
- Warranty replaced upper joint 1994
- Cracked upper joint 2001
- Pinned upper joint 2001
- Current instrument, for outdoor performance
Buffet Crampon RC 1112Z bought 2001
- Current instrument
The only thing I can think of that could cost the damage would by the humidity, because our city is located between two rivers…
Post Edited (2005-09-29 07:29)
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2005-09-29 11:48
To get a proper data set, perhaps geography should figure into the distribution model - I suspect areas of large seasonal humidity changes will see more cracks than other areas...
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-09-29 15:09
Synonymous Botch,
Good point, re areas of large seasonal humidity changes.
I live in southern Ontario (Canada), where these changes are something with which we have to cope.
My 1988 Selmer Recital Bb has not cracked. I dry it carefully after each use, and it gets at least one annual oiling, or more if the bore starts to look dry, but it could just as easily be a matter of good luck.
Regards,
hans
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-09-29 19:55
Climate is definitely a factor. I bought my R13 in the Canadian prairies (hot dry summers & cold dry winters), around 1988. It promptly cracked in the upper joint (after that one and only outdoor concert I have ever played). The crack was pinned and has never given me any trouble.
I spent 9 years on the west coast of Canada, with mild & reasonably humid climate - no cracks. Then 4 years in Sweden (cold dry winters, warm humid summers). In winter the metal rings would come loose and keys start sticking, but fortunately no cracks.
Now I'm in France, let's see how my clarinet likes it here. I know my reeds are much more stuffy and temperamental than before!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-29 20:04
Pretty much all the Selmer BTs, CTs etc. I've seen on eBay (in the US) have been flush banded - talk about making it obvious!
Oh yeah, I mentioned I know of a P series CT owned from new, that one incidentally had a top joint transplant back in 1956 (the exact date was stamped under the top joint upper ring key barrel, as well as the * above the serial number).
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Author: TinyE
Date: 2005-09-29 20:26
Hey Chris P.,
Does the * above the serial number on a CT mean something in particular? I have a Q series that I bought in 1997, and just never really thought about it. Oh, and it wasn't cracked when I bought it, but the upper joint cracked about 8 months later. It was a small one though, just sealed and pinned.
3 out of 5 wooden clarinets of mine have cracked. The two that haven't are my newest, my Bb and A LeBlancs. I have only oiled those two a couple times since I bought them in 1998/99 (I'm bad). And the only extensive travelling I have done with any of them was from Atlanta to Cincinnati, but there is a humidity difference. Especially when going from a house with A/C (in OH), to a house with none (in GA).
I had an intermediate-model Selmer (the Omega) that cracked a month after I got it, and the joint was replaced (well, both were replaced- though the crack on the upper joint was clearly marked, the factory returned my clarinet with a new lower joint instead... so it had to be sent back again. I essentially got a new instrument).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-29 21:51
The * stamped above the serial number means the joint was transplanted by Selmer.
Then there are some that have ** above the serial number which are on their second transplant.
I've seen Adlers, Artleys, Booseys, Buffets, Selmer Paris and USA, Yamahas, Howarths, Leblancs, Marigaux, Amatis etc. all with cracked joints. Nothing is spared - the cracks don't have any mercy.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2005-09-29 21:53
As a repair tech, I see lots of cracked horns. Most the of the cracks are totally fixable and do nothing to the playing qualities of the instrument.
Any wood clarinet will crack. It is a fact of nature. Wood and moisture simply do not mix well.
One of the weirdest cracks I ever saw, was on a 40 year old Leblanc bass clarinet. The crack was on the top joint, from the top down to the first trill key tone hole. Now why, after 40 + years, did this instrument decide to crack?
Turns out, the cork and the "washer" under the top metal tenon receiver had totally rotted out. In playing, moisture "blew" under the tenon receiver and pooled there. It caused enough localized swelling that the wood finally cracked to relieve the pressure.
How could this have been prevented? Only a total dissassembly, cleaning, and overhaul, done on a periodic basis MIGHT have caught this. In this case, a high school bass clarinet that only went to the local music store for a quick new pad, it was never caught.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
Professional level clarinet mouthpieces
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-29 21:58
I must admit that I do take out the speaker bushes on clarinets that are in for a service as well as on full overhauls - it's amazing how many are loose!
I put Buffet ones back in with shellac, but put threaded bushes back in with beeswax while still hot to seal them, then warm them up after to make doubly sure the wax seals.
Buffet ones (and some Leblanc bushes - usually alto and basset horns) normally just pop out with no trouble!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-09-29 22:00)
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-09-30 20:33
1 out of 3 of my clarinets have cracked. The one that did crack was a Yamaha 52 (my first wood clarinet) that I bought in 2000 that I used for 4 years-it has cracked a total of 7 times and on every single joint + the barrel and bell. I just bought a R13, so hopefully it won't crack in the changing Missouri weather!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-09-30 21:03
Jimmy cracked horn, and I don't care,
Jimmy cracked horn, and I don't care,
Jimmy cracked horn, and I don't care.......
My gig has gone away.
[Name that tune]
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Author: klarisa
Date: 2005-10-04 10:13
Buffet Rc bought around 1988 two cracks in upper joint, both repaired and seem to be holding.
Buffet Festival (GREENLINE) bought around 1998 (i think) and as promised never cracked, has never been oiled Still looks as new and plays as new.
(If i ever would need another instrument it would sure be a Greenline again)
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Author: A2Clarinetist
Date: 2005-10-04 10:46
My parents bought me a Selmer Signet in 1980...in 1983 it cracked a little and it was repaired. Of course I was playing in marching band with it so it might have something to do with playing it in extreme heat, extreme cold and rain.
In 1983 my parents bought me my R13 which has not cracked at all. 22 years old and still has no cracks and a beautiful tone.
I also have a Rene Duval clarinet (made in Italy) from 1930 or so that is wood and does not have any cracks so I would have to say I have had pretty good luck with wood clarinets.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-05 16:34
Since someone mentioned oil I hope this is not "off topic." I have a new R13 since January. On the recommendation of a local repair person I have been giving her a healthy coating of 100% Orange Oil (non-petroleum based) at least once per month (New English winters you know) and so far no cracks.
Is there anything wrong with oiling away? Am I just lucky so far?
........Paul Aviles
(a guy who hangs around with musicians)
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Author: BassClarinetGirl
Date: 2005-10-05 17:02
My '64 Selmer 9* has not cracked. Neither has the Selmer Signet 100 school owned horn that I play on once in a while.
Is it true that the older the instrument is, if it has not previously cracked, it is less likely to?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-05 18:19
My '64 Series 9 full Boehm A hasn't cracked either, and this lived in landlocked Vienna before I bought it.
However, the lower bell ring is still rattling around and I can't shrink it to tighten it.
The '78 Bb bell ring was loose when I bought it (came from the south of France), but has tightened up nicely - but the bottom joint socket cracked due to the liner. Not a problem though, I've sorted it.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-10-05 18:31
I recently obtained a turn-of-the century (that's right, 100 years old) Jerome Thibouville-Lamy (JTL) full-Boehm clarinet with a one-piece body (really!) that's made of some of the best-looking wood I've ever seen -- nice reddish-brown fine grain, hard as a rock, smooth and glossy as plastic, and not even a hint of a crack anywhere on the extra-long body. The bore is smooth and shiny too. I have little doubt that with just occasional oiling this clarinet will go another hundred years without cracking.
I've found that if a clarinet has gone a few decades without cracking, and is oiled maybe once a year and not subjected to outrageously rapid temperature or humidity changes, it shouldn't crack in the future.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-05 20:35
I've seen a Jaques Albert covered hole Boehm clarinet from that era - and the wood is of the best quality, I thought my old Centered Tone A was unsurpassable (with a nice deep reddish colour), but the wood on this Albert is flawless! My ancient Selmer basset horn has fantastic timber as well.
There's another player with a one-piece body Couesnon (with a LH throat A trill key), and again the wood is of the highest quality.
My Buffet Prestige bass, however, has had the bottom joint (low C) filled in various places, and the R13 Bb I just overhauled had a filled worm hole under the top joint side Eb/Bb key, but ran where the spring slot for the side F# key had been milled, so it's out of normal sight.
Did they use axe-split timber back then (in the mid to late 19th and early 20th century)? The grain on these older instruments is absolutely dead straight, whereas the modern saw-cut timber has the grain going off in all sorts of directions, and end grain in the bore asking for trouble - worst culprits are obviously the large volume producers, and the worst batches of the best wood are usually heavily stained (or painted) and used for student instruments.
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