 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dreamsicle
Date: 2005-09-17 22:19
HELP!
Okay, a sixth grader I know just started playing clarinet last month. I helped her order a Buffet E11 online (from musician's friend). Today I got a call from her mom saying that she accidentally sat on her clarinet during band class, and now it has a huge crack in the upper joint.
I went to Brook Mays with her to get the clarinet fixed, and the repair guy said that the whole upper joint would have to be replaced. He said that we needed to check to see if it could be replaced without charge under the warranty. When I checked the Buffet one-year warranty policy, it said that they did fix cracks, but they did not fix damages incurred due to negligence. Because the crack doesn't look like a normal crack does (it doesn't run up and down), I don't think we can convince Buffet that it wasn't caused by an accident.
What should be done at this point? The instrument was not insured. Would it be best to try to get the damage covered by the Buffet manufacturer's warranty? Or should we purchase insurance for the instrument and then make a claim for the accidental damage? Or should we just pay for the upper joint replacement?
Any advice will be appreciated greatly.
Thanks!
Post Edited (2005-09-17 22:20)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-09-17 22:28
dreamsicle wrote:
> Or should we purchase
> insurance for the instrument and then make a claim for the
> accidental damage?
Fraudulent claims are one of the reasons that insurance rates are rising..
Don't add to the problem ...GBK
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2005-09-17 22:29
You should pay for the upper joint replacement.
Sorry:-(
Tony
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-09-17 22:32
Quote:
Would it be best to try to get the damage covered by the Buffet manufacturer's warranty? No harm in trying. Worst case scenario is they say, "No."Quote:
Or should we purchase insurance for the instrument and then make a claim for the accidental damage? Well I'm pretty sure that that's some form of insurance fraud, so if you try this route, know that there could be repercussions.Quote:
Or should we just pay for the upper joint replacement? IMO, I would neglect paying for a new upper joint, and literally spring for a whole new clarinet. For the price of a new Buffet E11, you can get a very good clarinet (probably better). Ridenour Arioso (I'm pretty sure is about 800 dollars), or maybe look into one of the well-reputed student instruments (Forte clarinet). I think this might be a lesson though to hold off on a wooden one for a little bit. Even though it was an accident, I don't see how a sixth grader would be 'put off' by not having a wooden clarinet. Not to mention, if she sticks with it, it'd be nice to have a hard rubber, or other NON-WOODEN material clarinet anyway for those upcoming marching band seasons.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2005-09-17 22:53
bflatclarinetist wrote:
>> But why should she pay for it?>>
Wrong pronoun. Dreamsicle wrote:
>> Or should we just pay for the upper joint replacement?>>
...to which I replied:
>> You (plural, following 'we', but probably applying to the kid's mom) should pay for the upper joint replacement.>>
It's astounding to me that the question should even arise. It shows that not only do y'all have a 'blame' culture, which is highly questionable in itself -- you have something much worse, namely a 'blame as judged by what you can get away with assigning' culture; and further, one which you accept as normal.
What are you teaching the sixth grader in all of this?
Tony
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-09-17 23:40
Little Miss Muffet
sat on a Buffet.......
(sorry, I couldn't resist)
![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif)
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2005-09-17 23:43
Ah yes, this is the fault of American culture....that's it!
Bradley
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-09-18 00:00
Re: "y'all have a 'blame' culture, which is highly questionable in itself -- you have something much worse, namely a 'blame as judged by what you can get away with assigning' culture; and further, one which you accept as normal"..... let's not generalize, shall we?
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-09-18 00:01
She should pay for it because she sat on it. There is no getting around that.
Sue Tansey
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Author: clarinetsweetheart
Date: 2005-09-18 02:02
I agree. She should pay on it because, seriously, how the hell does one miss a fairly large (in proportion to the seat) dark-colored instrument on one's seat, especially if it's worth so much? I completely don't understand that, though she is probably 11/12 and probably doesn't quite understand what she has(had?). If it was any of us, we would pay for it outright because we're older (I hope.), and she should too, thereby learning the lesson therein.
And I agree - don't generalize us or our culture. Just because one or two people made the comment doesn't mean that we all agree with it. That's amazingly shallow of you.
~*Charlotte*~
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-09-18 02:09
couldn't agree more whole heartedly, Charlotte. Very shallow and very simple and close minded.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-09-18 03:04
Did she sit on it on purpose? Maybe she really doesn't want to play clarinet. I keep hearing about these kid catastrophes and in all my years of playing I've never witnessed one. I just wonder...
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-09-18 03:11
Definitely she and her mom should pay for it. That's too bad. May I ask why a sixth grader had a wooden clarinet?? I would suggest trying to sell the Buffet and purchase something a little more common-place for a sixth grader...plastic anyone??
Clayton
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Author: Karel
Date: 2005-09-18 06:45
The primary culprit in this story is, I think, the person from Brook Mays for even suggesting that Buffet could be held responsible for the damage. His ethics leave a lot to be desired and so do those of the owner of the E11 for being tempted into thinking that Buffet should be liable for her sitting on the instrument. What if she had left it on the driveway and her father had driven over it? And the idea of taking out insurance after the event and claiming on it? Of course one might be able to find a lawyer to claim that there was no warning printed on the clarinet that it was not to be sat on?? Really.....
Karel.
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2005-09-18 08:05
Dreamsicle -
As mentioned earlier, call Buffet and see if they will cover it. You will never know if they will or not if the call is never made. Chances of Buffet saying they will replace the joint are slim, but they might do it because the clarinet is new or to just be nice. Call and ask.
If Buffet won't cover the damage, replace the joint or the whole clarinet. If the family wants to replace the clarinet with a like or similar model look for a used clarinet. It'll be cheaper and could play just as well.
Karel-
I don't think anyone was suggesting that Buffet should be held responsible for what happened. No one said anything to the likes of "It's Buffet's fault." It was mentioned that the party in question should contact Buffet and see if Buffet would cover it, not "Buffet should cover it."
Claribone-
What's wrong with a sixth grade student having a wooden clarinet? If the child is responsible, what difference would it really make? The parents are willing to purchase a "good quality instrument" and invest in their child's education. More power to them, I'm all for it!
I started on an R13 in 4th grade and then a Mark VI in 5th grade when I switched to sax. I still use the same clarinet. Sold the VI for a Series II in college because I was tired of dealing with the intonation issues. Should my parents be faulted for this? Heck, No! I was lucky enough to have very good quality instruments to start on. Was I informed of the responsiblity needed with these instruments? Yes, I knew their value and what I had to do to take care of them and respect them. Just so there is no confusion, these instruments were not purchased for me. My family inherited them from my grandfather. It would have been silly to sell them and then purchase a lesser quality instrument because I was a beginner.
It's always mentioned on this Bboard that students should start on a good quality mouthpiece. Why not have the rest of the instrument to go with the mtpc if you can afford it? It'll save another expenditure later in life and if the child doesn't continue on, knock off the cost of a new student instrument from the original price and sell it for that amount.
-pat
added last few sentences in 2nd to last paragraph during edit
Post Edited (2005-09-18 08:19)
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Author: Karel
Date: 2005-09-18 14:57
pzaur,
If you look at the original post the guy suggested asking Buffet whether they would fix or replace the upper joint "under warranty", which excludes damage through negligence. It would be nice of Buffet, but pretty unlikely unless the cause of the damage is misrepresented; and this is where the question of ethics comes into play.
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Author: clarinetsweetheart
Date: 2005-09-18 15:20
Okay, this is all starting to frustrate me. Why is this even a question?
Buffet doesn't cover negligent problems. Unless you plan on flat-out lying to them, which I personally think is horribly wrong, especially since you have an impressionable child here, I really hope this basically covers this argument. Buffet probably won't cover it, and to settle this once and for all why don't you just *call them* and ask?
You made the suggestion of making a fraudulent insurance claim, which is also a horrible, unethical idea, in my opinion. So I hope you won't do that either because, simply put, you shouldn't do that. It's wrong and I think we all know that.
Then there is the matter of who pays for what, but frankly I don't see what else you could say about this either. The child sat on her clarinet. Who else is going to pay for it except for her parents?
Your other option is to sell the wooden with crack for a low price, telling whomever buys it what they need to fix, and then to buy her a plastic until she learns to not sit on her instruments.
Alright. Arguments, please.
~*Charlotte*~
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2005-09-18 15:48
Plastic or wood, with the amount of pressure it took to break the wooden clarinet, the plastic one surely would have broken also. I think the child in question has already learned "to not sit on her instruments" after this experience. Accidents happen.
The ethics only come into play with a fraudulent claim. No has suggested that in any way through this entire dialogue. It has been whole heartedly shot down by everyone, which it should be. Asking Buffet if they would cover what happened, which the party in question should do, is in no way unethical. As Charlotte stated, the worst that can happen is Buffet says "No".
As I tell my band parents, always get the insurance when renting/purchasing an instrument for a beginner.
-pat
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Author: susieray
Date: 2005-09-18 15:59
If this had happened to my child, I would have the clarinet fixed, and have the child contribute something towards that expense by working it off somehow. However I wouldn't expect her to work off the entire thing at that age. I doubt it was done intentionally, and she probably feels pretty bad about it as it is. That is normally "punishment" enough, but if the kid gets off too easily that can teach them that no matter what happens, someone will be there to bail them out. So the child does need to learn that there are consequences in life, even when they accidently break something.
After having it repaired I would insist that instrument be kept at home until the child was a little older and a little more careful. I would buy a Vito for school use; most kids who play in school bands are going to end up marching and will need a plastic horn anyway, so it wouldn't hurt to have two clarinets.
Sue
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-09-18 16:16
I wouldnt punish a 6th grader for making a mistake many grown ups have made like sitting on there glasses or whatever. Accidents happen. The explaination of the direction of the crack possibly running against the grain is also suspitious and could have been a flaw in the wood to begin with. If so, the online seller or Buffet may consider giving a discount on a new upper joint or new E11 and it would be a happy upcomming birthday gift for her to continue her clarinet studies.![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: susieray
Date: 2005-09-18 16:34
Just to clarify, I wouldn't "punish" anyone of ANY age for accidentally sitting on their clarinet. Obviously accidents do happen. I wouldn't do it in a way that made her feel she was being punished but I think it is important that kids take some responibility for their own mistakes. An 11-12 year old is old enough to understand that principle.
Sue
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2005-09-18 16:45
>>>>
Then there is the matter of who pays for what, but frankly I don't see what else you could say about this either. The child sat on her clarinet. Who else is going to pay for it except for her parents?
<<<<
Sue the chair manufacturer. Or sue the teacher who ordered the kids to sit down.
Best bet is to sue B&C for manufacturing a breakable clarinet in the first place. Quite probably there's no section in the manual that instructs the owner /not/ to sit on it, so who could blame the user?
Having said that, ask B&C about the price for a replacement part. The rest of the horn is still good, so I think it'd be worth restoring.
If you don't want to invest more money, ask your friendly dealer for a plastic horn trade-in.
--
Ben
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Author: clarinetsweetheart
Date: 2005-09-18 18:26
Um.
You're not serious, Ben, about that entire first paragraph, are you?
~*Charlotte*~
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2005-09-18 18:37
>>>>
You're not serious, Ben, about that entire first paragraph, are you?
<<<<
Not really. I thought I was exaggerating enough, but upon 2nd reading I realize it could be misunderstood. Sorry. I must have been reading too many of those Winnebago urban legends. <hangs head>
--
Ben
Post Edited (2005-09-18 18:38)
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-09-18 18:42
Man, this thread has enough blame and recrimination to rival the Katrina story.
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Author: clarinetsweetheart
Date: 2005-09-18 18:45
Agreed :-P
And yeah, Ben, I thought you were kidding up until the question at the end. Glad to know I was right ^_^
~*Charlotte*~
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-09-18 19:19
pzaur, I stand by my statement. I don't believe ANY young beginner should have a wooden clarinet. The maturity level and resonsibility needed to care for the clarinet just isn't there in most cases (I admit there can be freak incidents where a child is extremely anal retentive or just flat out LOVES his/her clarinet to care for it properly, however there is an overwhelming majority of beginners who treat there instruments like young beginners usually do, i.e. sitting on them.).
Dreamsicle: see if you can sell the clarinet and get something she won't have to worry about as much, unless she has learned her lesson and the clarinet can still retain some of its value.
Best of Luck!!
Clayton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-18 20:03
Plastic clarinets are much easier to break than wooden ones, and not as easy to repair.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-09-18 20:07
[ This thread has gone on long enough and is now going in circles. - GBK ]
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