 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2005-08-18 03:05
I just oredered a couple mouthpieces to try from Robert Borbeck and was curious what other people's experiences were with these mouthpieces. These are the custom ones that you buy through him, not the ones that you can get on wwbw.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2005-08-18 03:30
I have a Borbeck I've been playing on since I ordered it from him in 1994 or so. I called, we chatted briefly, I explained what kind of playing I was doing, and he sent me ONE mouthpiece to try. Fortunately, I liked it a lot and since then have had no reason to switch.
I have a drawer full of Vandorens I acquired in fits of restlessness over the years; I was using a B-45 before the Borbeck. The B-45's sound is bigger, splattier, and projects well, but it's a pretty character-less sound, to my ears.
The Borbeck's sound, however, is a little thinner maybe, a little lighter too, but it has tons of character (I'm referring to the particular version I'm using; YMMV). It's a perfect chamber mouthpiece, but projects effortlessly in a large hall with a big orchestra. I'm not really good at describing tonal characteristics of mouthpieces, but I get a lot of compliments on my sound, so the Borbeck clearly works for me.
PS, I've used it routinely in big-band settings as well, and it blends beautifully--also adds a lot of warmth in Miller charts w/those clarinet leads.
disclaimer: I really haven't played much else, so take the above for what it's worth.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-08-18 04:28
About 2-3 years ago I pulled out my old Borbeck which I had gotten in 1984 or 1985? Sorry, I can't remember when...
I also don't know if it was a custom one, but I suspect not. I got it at Marks music in PA when I took lessons there.
I have fallen in love with it again, and I'm playing Legere 3.25 on it too.
Before that it was a B45dot, and before that a Gigliotti.
Katrina
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-08-18 04:44
I just ran a quick search on "Borbeck" without the quotes and got about 178 hits. You'll undoubtedly get some new comments in this thread but, if you also want to see what's been said in the past, you might try the search function.
I have a Borbeck 14 from the early 1980's. I bought it as a backup for my Chicago Kaspar 14 when I learned that Borbeck had studied with one (or possibly both) of the Kaspars. The mouthpiece has a much shorter beak (and hence steeper angle) than my Kaspar but otherwise plays very much like it.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-18 04:53
I've had a number of Borbeck's from the late 70's and early 80's.
I've kept the best one, a Borbeck 16 as a nice back-up mouthpiece. It produces a ringing sound, with great response and nice color in the upper register.
Jack is quite correct - the mouthpiece is "fatter" and the beak angle is steeper than my Kaspar, but it produces a similar type of sound.
FWIW - about a year ago I ordered 3 Borbecks from WW/BW for a student who was interested in getting one.
All three were unacceptable - stuffy, poor response and little projection. In short, these mouthpieces looked and sounded nothing like the Borbeck's of the 70's and 80's...GBK
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-08-18 18:50
Interesting, GBK...I have two students who ordered Borbecks from WW/BW about 2-3 years ago, and each only ordered one. Both ended up with very fine mouthpieces...
Katrina
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-18 20:25
Katrina wrote:
> Interesting, GBK...I have two students who ordered Borbecks
> from WW/BW about 2-3 years ago, and each only ordered one.
> Both ended up with very fine mouthpieces...
As usual with WW/BW, it seems like it's the luck of the draw. I did find an excellent old stock Pomarico #3 among their recent batch of Pomaricos they sent me.
Sometimes you get a winner (although in my experience, rare) and sometimes you get a dud.
What annoys me more, is when WW/BW repackages mouthpieces which have obviously been tried and rejected by someone, often with ligature and/or tooth marks, and charges as a "new" mouthpiece.
At the very least it should be a "B stock" or "C stock" ...GBK
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-08-19 03:15
FWIW, I have had much better experiences trying mouthpieces onsite at WW/BW. I never noticed any "repackaged" ones. At the very least, I don't remember even seeing any "shopworn" boxes. And I never saw any teethmarks...
Of course, the last time I drove through Indiana on my way to Ohio was 4 years ago...Much may have changed...
Katrina
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-08-19 19:14
From the time I started playing clarinet in 1963, I was unhappy with my mouthpieces. I tried several over the years; none had exactly what I wanted. I finally used the trick of putting some wax inside which helped. Then I discovered Borbeck's mouthpieces. I tried every mouthpiece in a special woodwind shop in Oakland without looking at which ones were which. I had my wife and a couple of friends listening. The best two of all of them with the sound I wanted were a Borbeck 14 and a Borbeck 16. These were all expensive custom mpc's. I bought both and have been playing them now for 20 plus years. In the last year or so, I have bought 3 more. (You never can tell when you might break a mouthpiece; it's "insurance!!!") My favorite is a hard rubber #16 my wife bought from him for me for my birthday a couple of years ago. I really like his mouthpieces. My other faves, by the way, are a pair of "Jazz" mpc's from Walter.
John
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: marcia
Date: 2005-08-19 20:17
Kalakos, you said:
"I finally used the trick of putting some wax inside which helped."
Please explain.
Thanks
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-08-19 20:30
I don't think the Borbeck's you get from him and the WW and BW are the same animal. I went to his house years ago and I think he told me the WW mouthpiece was a cheaper line and perhaps a different blank. So order direct. He let me try lots and pick the most suitable for me. John
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-19 22:03
The main problem you MIGHT run into ordering direct is you may lose the option to return it should you NOT like the mouthpiece. With wwbw it's very clearcut on the return issue, however dealing direct with sellers you may lose that option. Many mouthpiece makers out there are willing to work with you to solve any issues (my thanks to Greg Smith who was VERY patient with me and I'm very happy with the result and haven't used a different mouthpiece since), but that's still a risk you take.
On the flipside, I am NOW of the mentality that you can't beat a hand-faced mouthpiece from a 'master of the art'. Borbeck (as is showed by lots of the posts in this board) seems to be one of them.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: DougR
Date: 2005-08-19 23:52
Just for the record, when Mr. Borbeck and I chatted, I wanted him to send me several to try; he wanted to send just one. (I put this down to caution about sending out mouthpieces to people he didn't know & it seemed reasonable, so...) He did say that if the mouthpiece didn't suit, send it back and we'd discuss it and then he'd send something else. Again, this was in 1994 and I have no idea what his policy is now, but I wouldn't think getting "stuck" with an unsuitable mouthpiece would be a problem with him.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2005-08-20 03:32
When I called him, he had me send two checks (one for each mouthpiece). When I decide whether or not I'm going to keep one, he'll send back one or both of the checks.
The mouthpieces that he sells through wwbw are definitely a different line from the ones you get directly from him. The mouthpieces you order from him are all handmade to order.
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-08-24 05:13
<<Kalakos, you said:
"I finally used the trick of putting some wax inside which helped."
Please explain.
Thanks>>
Hi: Basically, you melt candle wax into the upper inside part of the mpc, back a ways from the tip where it begins to straighten. This made the tone better for Greek folk music, but I think I saw someone else mention a similar "fix" recently on the list.
Best regards,
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-08-24 11:55
Hello,
I always recommend trying about 5 mouthpieces at the same time (when I send them to professionals, I send 10). It sounds as if Mr. Borbeck's policy of sending 2 checks for 2 mouthpieces is reasonable. Perhaps he would do 5 for 5.
Be prepared to try new mouthpeices with different strengths of reeds. You'd be amazed sometimes that what doesn't work with a 4, for example, works beautifully with a 3.5. This is all based on the facing of the mouthpiece and to the interior resistance. If you want more detailed information, I'll be glad to discuss it with you.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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