 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: earlthomas
Date: 2004-12-13 18:26
According to the actual orchestra clarinet I part, there are seven beats ina 6/8 measure of the"Variation" inf the Dance of the Firebird, Bar 15. The same mis-print occurs in the Bonade Orchestral excerpts book. I've played that piece many, many times and try to squeeze-in the "lick" using open high D and 12/12 for the high F#. It's possible! Does anyone know if this measure is a mis-print or some difference between the original Ballet score or the revised versions of 1910 or 1919? Your input is appreciated Pardon any typing errors. My "stoke" has improved thanks to Hamelin and Baerman daily routine (not the typing, yet) plus the odd study from Uhl, Zitek, etc. and to the kind letters of encouragement from other utilizers of this excellent bulletin board
Sincerely
E. Thomas
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-12-13 18:59
earlthomas wrote:
> According to the actual orchestra clarinet I part, there are
> seven beats ina 6/8 measure of the"Variation" inf the Dance of
> the Firebird, Bar 15. The same mis-print occurs in the Bonade
> Orchestral excerpts book.
If you are referring to the 1919 version, the questionable passage occurs one measure before #14.
As most performers have now come to realize, this is the piccolo/flute passage which was mistakenly copied onto the clarinet part. The 1919 version, as edited by McAlister, omits this measure in the clarinet part.
If you do insist on playing it, to alleviate the problem of 7 beats in that measure, change the first quarter rest to an eighth rest, thus making the first note (D4) the last part of a triplet on beat 2. The next three notes are a triplet on beat 3.
The Bonade excerpt book, besides (IMO) incorrectly showing this passage for clarinet, has a wrong note on the 4th beat. The high E#6 should be a D#6
BTW - The 1989 McAlister edition is much preferred over his older 1985 version.....GBK
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Author: earlthomas
Date: 2004-12-14 01:39
Thanks GBK. I have begun the passage on beat three so that the clarinet, flute and piano parts are more in sync. That's quite practical. BTW, the passage only involves the piano, piccolo and clarinets 1 and 2. The 7 eighth-note counts in that 6/8 measure only exist in clar and picc. parts. Removing the printed eighth rest in those parts on count three fixes the problem. It is a pity that it's never been corrected because it is quite an interesting technical passage for Clarinet 1. I know of at least one Canadian Music Department that encourages its auditionees not to play the passage.
Maybe Robert Craft could help us with this situation?
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Author: earlthomas
Date: 2004-12-23 02:06
Dear GBK:
I cannot understand how you can ask "if you insist on playing it", especialy when the passage is in the 1st clarinet part. I've played the passage many times, both on tour and off. I did clarify that the part is in error. All one has to do is look at the score and find that on count three, the piano part shows compatible 1/32 notes that occur in the clarinet part on count four. Obviously the clarinet part is in error. The flute part is empty in fhat measure, but the piccolo, clarinet and piano parts are vertically aligned on count 3 with agreeable 1/32nd notes.
The only reason I call this to your attention and to the rest of the readers is:
the passage is in the part and we have to re-create it as best we can. Given that the piano part begins compatible chordtone notes on count 3 , I maintain that we adjust the 1st clarinet part to have the passage start on the same count. (Would-be conductors, please take note)
It's a pity that this mis-print has been in existence for so terribly long. Surely, we can fix this with the suggested adjustment.
You mention a McAlister edition. Unfortunately, I don't have that available at the moment. My information comes from the Hampton score and from a part marked "re-orchestrated by rhe Composer in 1919".
Like I wrote, it's in the 1st clarinet part; so, we must play it. In the orchestra world that I lived in for over forty years, there were no excuses. While I'm now retired, I'll teach my pupils to play the print.
Post Edited (2004-12-23 02:37)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-12-23 02:46
earlthomas wrote:
> Dear GBK:
> I cannot understand how you can ask "if you insist on playing
> it", especialy when the passage is in the 1st clarinet part.
Earl: The passage in question is NOT in the 1st clarinet part of the 1985 or 1989 McAlister edition of 1919 version of The Firebird. This, BTW, is now the most commonly used edition for orchestral performance.
Granted, if asked in an audition to perform this passage, one would have no recourse.
Finally, I refer to this excerpt from a recent bulletin board discussion on the 1919 version of The Firebird on 1/15/2003:
"... Jonathan Cohler replied to a similar question about this measure some years ago. He indicated that it indeed was a mistake and one should under no circumstances play it. I got his e-mail address from the help section of the woodwing.org site and actually asked him about it myself, probably four months ago or so now. His reply was very similar to what he had said before but went a bit farther suggesting that anyone who asked someone to play one before 14 in shouldn't be judging an audition..."
...GBK
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Author: earlthomas
Date: 2004-12-23 06:59
Thanks for the information. Sorry to have bothered you. As Auden wrote:
"In states unable to alleviate stress, discontent is hung " or words to that effect.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-08-16 22:54
Hello, I found this interesting thread and am needing to prepare this but do not have a corrected clarinet part. It sounds like two solutions have been proposed for the measure before 14 (if we are asked to play it). One is to leave the 32nd notes as 32nd notes but play them on beat three. removing the printed eighth rest on that beat. Or should there be a triplet on beat three with the first note (D) placed on the final triplet subdivision of beat 2? I am planning to find out ahead of time if I do indeed need to play it but would like to be ready just in case.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-08-17 00:57
GBK,
And everyone knows that the word of J.C. is the end all be all. HA!!
I find this statement by Jonathan to be offensive. (I actually know him personally here in Boston and would be happy to tell him so) The proper thing to do is ASK the audition committee or the conductor whether or not they would like you to play the passage. Many a clarinetist has shown up with the McAllister edition and been raked over the coals because they did not play from the edition specified by the committee. Shame on them!
While I agree it is a mistake that was copied incorrectly, the fact of the matter is that the mistake lasted for almost 80 years! People are used to hearing it a certain way and we as clarinetists should be able to play either part, mistake or not. Just find out ahead of time!
--Michael
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-17 01:15
"...The proper thing to do is ASK the audition committee or the conductor whether or not they would like you to play the passage..."
Michael,
I agree with you, that the audition committee and/or the conductor dictates what is acceptable to them.
Having performed the Firebird a few times, but only from the McAlister/Kalmus version, for me, it would feel strange to actually play the part in question.
Although I could, if needed ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-08-17 01:24
I actually get the impression that I will be expected to play it since a corrected note is pencilled in. I was interested in the two rhythmic approaches that seem to have been presented in this thread. What's the rhythm of the piccolo/flute in this measure?.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-17 01:45
The middle finger high F# works just fine too for it. (still w/the open D)
Also use the side high C# fingering.
Post Edited (2005-08-17 13:53)
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2005-08-17 13:44
An interesting thread. Of the two main participants, GBK is well known to
those of us who frequent this forum. Earl Thomas's name was also well
known at one time: student of Duques, predecessor of David Glazer in the New York Woodwind Quintet, clarinetist in the Dallas and Oklahoma City
Symphonies, etc. (Click on his name and then the link to his web page for
more.) As a college student I managed the drive from Tulsa
to Norman Oklahoma for lessons a couple of times and was well rewarded
for the effort.
My regards Mr. Thomas,
Dan Oberlin
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-17 13:58
Dan - good stuff. I'm sure it was worth the drive!
btw - In the 1998 Fischoff Chamber Music Competition Jonathan Cohler's students (a string quartet) were competing against a woodwind quintet which a clarinet student of mine was in. Colher's group was called
"the firebirds"
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