 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: selmer_fan
Date: 2005-06-29 00:08
Hi there,
I've just returned to clarinet playing after a break of a few years. Tonight I played my first evening in an ensemble (a concert wind band) and have noticed a couple of issues.
Obviously after a couple of years out my intonation is pretty much shot and I'm having to compensate alot. Throat tones very sharp, etc, but pulling out makes the rest too flat. I play on an old Selmer Centered Tone - it's lovely, but it literally hasn't been out of its case in 2 years or so. Would it be worth getting it checked out to make sure the problem isn't with the instrument? (I'm thinking it's probably me though, but am unsure if leaving a wooden instrument for so long can cause intonation issues)
Secondly, I'm having quite a bit of trouble hearing myself. Half way through the rehearsal I switched from my 5RV Lyre mouthpiece to my Selmer HS and this seemed to help a little with the volume projection. I'm wondering if it may be worth investing in a student m/p, or at least something with less resistance, until I've built my chops up again, or if this will accentuate the already annoying intonation issues?
I was using a Mitchell Lurie 2.5 reed, if it helps.
Any opinions would be gratefully received.
Many thanks!
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-06-29 04:06
I think you'll find the intonation issue is all in your head (I'm not joking) read a very recent thread about out of tune clarinets ... where actually it's all about how you know and adjust automatically.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-06-29 04:08
Hey selmer_fan. Search the BBoard for care of your wooden clarinet as you don't want to risk cracking your horn (maybe vulnerable after that long break, however I'm not sure). Have your clarinet looked over by a GOOD repair tech (Others more knowledgeable than I can direct you to several prominite repair techs across the U.S. and Europe) if it needs it, you should be able to test for leaky pads ,etc. Also after doing a quick search, I stumbled across the thread "Intonation tips?" which seems to conain similair questions, thoughts, and equipment (mouthpiece is the same I think). There maybe more, but its late and I'm tired. Hope this helps!!!
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Author: D
Date: 2005-06-29 07:14
Personally I have found that my 5RV plays better with a medium reed (equivilent to at least a 3 vandoren traditional, 3.5 is better). Which is unfortunate because I find this very hard work to blow, but if I manage it the tone is much better and more consistent.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-06-29 08:47
An ML 2.5 is a very soft reed to use on a 5RVL. I used to use a 3.5 or a 4 on mine. This should make it much easier to keep the pitch stable. Bear in mind that ML reeds are softer number-for-number than most others. I stopped buying them 18 months ago, when they seemed to be getting even softer than before.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-06-29 11:19
"Secondly, I'm having quite a bit of trouble hearing myself. "
This may sound off the wall to some, but I had this same problem recently and the problem turned out to be impacted ear wax.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ben Redwine
Date: 2005-06-29 12:19
Hello,
In working on mouthpieces recently, I am finding a trend with the VanDorens. They seem to lack some projection and depth, in the models I have tested. This is backed up somewhat by your claim that the Selmer mouthpiece was louder.
Reed strength is completely determined by the facing of your mouthpiece, regardless of what it is. Big companies like VanDoren don't do a lot of hand finishing of mouthpieces, so what is advertized as a certain tip opening may actually be considerably different. So, for one mouthpiece, a 4 reed may be required, and for another a 3, based on the tip opening and curve of its facing.
You should experiment with reed strengths until you get one that feels right and gets the best sound you can. The best reeds I have found are Canyes Xilema (www.xilema.net).
Careful practice with a tuner will help intonation immensely. I'm very happy with my new Smart Music subscription that allows me to play along with accompaniments to many concerti, sonatas, etc. and it has a tuner with a neat feature: it will play the note with you (if you enable it) so a beginner can actually hear what playing a little flat or sharp sounds like!
Cheers.
Ben
Ben Redwine
RedwineJazz, LLC
410 798-8251
clarinet@redwinejazz.com
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Author: The Doctor ★2017
Date: 2005-06-29 13:00
Ben - glad to see you posting. We need and appreciate the active comments from a custom mouthpiece maker and the insight into that murky area of how a mouthpiece functions and what attributes of changing the mouthpiece and set up might or might not accomplish for the player.
My hat is off to the small but talented crop of current custom mouthpiece makers. We can all go searching for a classic Kaspar or Chedville mouthpiece but other than the mystical rumors of the material that they are made of, the current custom mouthpiece makers have a better handle, IMHO, about customizing mouthpieces for the style of the player and will produce a finer product in the end.
Recently at the Oklahoma Clarinet Symposium I saw the same players sally back and forth between four (including Ben Redwine) custom mouthpiece makers (plus another in a separate exhibit room) in my room and try out multiple mouthpieces. Many appeared, and sounded, like very advanced players. These players were not buying exclusively - or even to a greater degree - from any one of them indicating to me that each one could give a particular player a mouthpiece that was best suited for them. I would recommend the process of going to a show - if possible - to try out several custom mouthpiece makers’ wares. Many cannot, but may gain information which has to be processed in light of their own conditions from posts on the BB by knowledgeable mouthpiece makers.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: selmer_fan
Date: 2005-06-29 13:24
Thanks for all your comments and advice.
Ben, that's interesting about the reed being specific to the mouthpiece. You learn something new every day. I will try a harder reed and see if that helps. I guess I just didn't want to have to blow to hard and bust a bloodvessel the first time out...
Claribone, that was a great thread about intonation, and that's actually what I tended to do in the past - compensate automatically. I'm probably just out of practise, but I'm taking the CT into the tech next week just to make sure there are no issues with the instrument itself. I also suspect I may have been clamping too hard and making the throat tones sharp to compensate for too soft a reed, so a step up may help.
Bob, I actually had my ears checked this week and all is fine in that department, but good point. I think it's probably just down to my lack of playing in recent years and airflow control issues. I did forget to mention I was using a Rovner Dark on the 5RVL, but I didn't try it on the HS when I switched over. I'll keep experimenting.
I don't have a tuner - I can generally hear when I'm out with myself, and just the tiniest amount makes me wince...but maybe I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Author: Burt
Date: 2005-06-29 13:41
Other possibilities why you can't hear yourself:
The people around you are playing very loudly.
The players are too close together.
Live acoustics of the room you're playing in.
I've experienced all three. The natural tendency is to play louder, which creates a vicious cycle. It also tires your embochure quickly.
Can you hear yourself well when you're playing alone at home?
Burt Marks
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Author: selmer_fan
Date: 2005-06-29 16:06
Hi Burt,
Yes, I can hear myself fine at home. No problems at all. I hadn't thought of the other possible problems you suggested but they all do seem to make sense. We were all seated very close together. The rehearsal hall is a school assembly room, with high ceilings and a wooden floor.
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