 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-12 15:35
I am working on transcribing a jazz piece ("King Porter Stomp")...just the part with the clarinet solo, band and all. I am having the toughest time though! I am great at hearing a melody and playing it back, but for some reason I can't get the chords to sound right and as for the rhythms- I can sing them and play them, but as soon as it comes time to write them down, I am lost! If anyone could offer any tips, that would be great!
-Lindsie
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-05-12 16:35
Hi M I L - I believe K P S is in my Zep Meissner Dixie collection [a set of 8 booklets, ?$ 2-4 each] some larger stores may have a set. At the moment, mine are lost in my archives [boxes!]. It has [should have] guitar chords, as well as the piano part [maybe "improved" chords], beyond 3 chord blues character, I should think. Other Dixie books should have this old standard too. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-05-12 16:48
What version are you transcribing...Benny Goodman's perhaps?
Rhythmically, that arrangement has a lot of offbeat hits that could sound like downbeats to an inexperienced players. Listen on headphones, and be very physical in your timekeeping so that you don't let all of the upbeat accents alter your perception of where the downbeat really is.
As for the chords, you might be thrown off by their flavor. Having a sixth chord as our tonic feels a little different from a straight major chord, and small differences like this can get you looking for complicated answers to simple questions. Try to transcribe the bass notes first. This will clue you in to a lot and being able to pound bass notes will make altered and inverted chords sound more like the basic things they really are.
Once you have the bass notes, you can also find chords by following individual voices in the arrangement. You'll soon be putting 2 and 2 together.
Please let us know ASAP what recording you're transcribing, and I think you'll find a host of help with the specifics. You will learn a ton from this. Good luck!
Allen Cole
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-05-13 01:13
Lindsie ... my advice to you, and I've been down the path you've just started (?) is to do it little by little. Your ear needs to become finely attuned to this sort of work. Have you done a solfeige (never know how to spell that word) course ... very beneficial.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: Burt
Date: 2005-05-13 03:18
I've found it useful to slow the tune to make it easier to catch some of the short notes and tricky rhythms. There are several computer programs available which can change the pitch and speed independently. I use Goldwave. Another is Amazing Slowdowner. You can find these by searching on the web. If you go below about 70% speed, the sound quality becomes very bad.
This computer technique allows you to quickly reset the playback to any point in time, so you can listen to a section repeatedly when you need to.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-05-13 05:38
Okay, we're talking about the same version. Very nice solo on that, and a first-class arrangement by Fletcher Henderson.
If you need a clearer recording of that arrangement, Benny had a concert in Stockholm in 1971. This same arrangement is on Verve's "Compact Jazz" series disc for Benny. It really brings out the detail in the background lines.
Allen Cole
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-13 15:09
I swear I got the right pitches on the trombone lines, but when I put them into sibelius with the clarinet solo, it sounded horrible! And I was slightly confused because my band director/theory teacher told me that the trombone is in concert pitch, so I was a bit confused because I tried putting the clarinet in the key of Eb, the trombones would be in Ab, correct? Sibelius put them in Gb and wouldn't let me change it. I am completely confused by all of this. dealings in concert pitch is not my strong suit. But regardless of the key, I told my teacher what the notes where and he played them on the keyboard and said they were wrong, regardless of what key it was in. He said that it was hard bcause there were falls and growls and all kinds of ornamentation...hard enough to hear with the clarinet cookin in the foreground! It just annoys me because they play the same thing over and over again, why can't I get these simple 3 notes?!
ps- I heard of the amazing slow downer and plan to try that out
-Lindsie
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-05-14 05:31
Lindsie - is this the first transcription you've down? If it has, jumping straight into doing a full big band arrangement is quite a big leap.
I've been doing transcriptions for about 25 years now; I've done everything up to full orchestra w/solo instrument and choir. I didn't leap into that level of complexity though. I started off small, with a brass quintet arrangement. It was easy to hear the individual voices and notate the rhythms without worrying about chord symbols.
Once I started studing jazz theory, I was able to transcribe chords more easily.
Transcribing jazz is very difficult if you don't read in that style frequently. If you're not used to conventions regarding notating swing and not used to seeing "pushes" or anticipations, you may end up trying to notate them as downbeats. I once suffered through a lift of a big band chart that started with a push on the And of four. The student heard it as One - and the entire chart, though accurately lifted pitchwise, was unplayable, since it was a half-beat off all the way through. You'd have to have been a complete masochist to play it.
As for concert pitch - lift everything except the bass in concert. (Notate the bass an octave above sounding pitch, as is the convention on string/electric bass parts.) A good part of what you can learn from transcribing is how to voice chords for an ensemble. It's much easier to see the voicings in concert. If the transcription is to be played, let the notation software worry about the transpositions.
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-05-15 05:04
just write the whole thing out in concert pitch, and transpose the parts later
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-05-16 16:40
If clarinet is in E-flat, trombones are in D-flat. This makes me wonder if you have selected some incorrect transpositions in building your score.
Did you use one of the stock scores that come with Sibelius, or did you build one yourself? King Porter is definitely in E-flat for the clarinet.
Also, Sibelius toggles between concert and transposed scores. You have to be careful to know which mode you're in when selecting keys, copying & pasting, etc.
Sometimes there are conflicts on midi playback...particularlly if you use the internal sound in your computer. (which I do in my laptop) If you want, you can email me the file you're working on and I'll try to see if I can find a glitch.
Allen Cole
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-05-18 04:30
Attachment: KeySignatureTransposition.gif (3k)
I listened to the chart in question; the Henderson arrangement is in the key of Ab Major. The instrumentation (I heard) is:
Bb Clarinet
2 Eb Alto, 2 Bb Tenor, 1 Eb Bari Saxophones
Bb Trumpets 1-4
3 C-pitched Tenor Trombones
Piano
Guitar
Bass
Piano
Drum kit
See attach of Finale transposition drop down box. If the program is giving you trouble converting the trombone lines, identify the pitches on clarinet and manually transpose up a whole step. And if it's an arrangement who says you have to transcribe/match the bone lines note for rhythm? Write your own line. For perspective, it might also be helpful to listen to Jelly Roll Morton's orignal 1915 piano recording of King Porter Stomp. v/r Ken
Post Edited (2005-05-18 04:45)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-05-18 05:45
I stand partially corrected. The opening of the chart is in A-flat, but the sax section's melody statement, the solo choruses and shout choruses are all in D-flat.
I would also double-check instrumentation. The Goodman band of that era did have 5 reeds including Benny, but I believe only three trumpets and two trombones. This was true of Stompin' At The Savoy, and also of Don't Be That Way, I think.
Allen Cole
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-18 12:51
I did get the instrumentation (by looking at the liner notes, go figure) and here's what I came up with:
Clarinet: Benny Goodman (1)
Trumpet: Harry James, Ziggy Elman, Chris Griffin (3)
Trombone: Red Ballard, Murray McEachern (2)
Alto Sax: Hymie Schertzer, George Koenig (2)
Tenor Sax: Art Rollini, Vido Musso (2)
Piano: Jess Stacy (1)
Guitar: Allan Reuss (1)
String Bass: Harry Goodman (1)
Drums: Gene Krupa (1)
-Lindsie
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