 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-04-25 20:25
I have been faced with a HUGE decision and I need your input.
Here's the thing: I visited University of Hartford, in Connecticut a couple of days ago for a tour. I missed the tour because my lesson with the clarinet teacher ended a bit late, but my mom and I went to the financial aid office. so after they didn't get my FAFSA (finacial aid report) initially (because my mom put down "Hartford U" instead of "U Hartford") I corrected it online but my mom didn't sign it with her pin number (which she didn't have), so essentially I can only get like $2000 for financial aid. BUT, I have not given up on Hartt (in the top 30 of music schools in the US...below Julliard and Manhattan school of music, but it's up there) yet, because I am determined to go, and here's where your opinion matters- I can be deferred for up to a year, which looks good to me because I honestly do not want to take the chance of going to Central Connecticut state U and trying transfer, with the chance of not making it into Hartt (since you have to re-audition...re-interview, etc.). If I wait until next fall, I can audition for a scholarship from Hartt, which is $4000+. I would take up to 8 credits at UHart/Hartt starting this fall and get transferable credits from a community college. That way I can get the FAFSA money and audition for the scholarship (which is only available to freshman arriving in the fall) for fall 2006. I was afraid of being behind, but I was told that I would be a freshman in 2006, but slightly ahead of the game since I would already have college credits.
but I was wondering if I should do that, or just go to central CTSU? (I was told that CCSU may have the better ed. classes and Hartt has far better ensembles).
they don't know if I can be in any Hartt ensembles unless I take them for the credit, which I was told I should not do, since I'd be wasting my credits on an ensemble. So I figured I could find a good orchestra in the community....
is it worth it? I'd be graduating a year later than planned and living at home for another year, but...
thanks
p.s.
hartt= $33,000/year...re-applying for FAFSA next year. hopefully I can get up to $15,000, but I don't know. scholarship= $4000+ (but I might not get it...)
cntral= $17,000/year + $9,500 Finacial aid and $1000 schoarship from CCSU (renewable each year)
(sorry if that's a bit confusing...)
-Lindsie
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Author: susannah
Date: 2005-04-25 22:02
Its a tricky situation, and in the end its your decision. Something I would definately do is talk to the teacher at the place you want to go (hartman?) He/She will probably have come across a similar situation before, and might know other ways to get scholarships/financial help (or cheap housing etc). If not, they should be able to give you some sort of idea of whether you're likely to get in again next year (no garuantees, but it helps to have their opinion).
Good Luck!
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-04-26 01:40
Here's my two cents. When I was applying to graduate schools, I applied to three. My long shot was Eastman School of Music - to which I was accepted, but for January entrance, not September. Like a complete idiot, I stormed off in a huff and went to my second choice school. Imagine the opportunity I threw away because a semester seemed too long to wait. When you're younger, these periods of time seem like an eternity. In reality, they are not, and a little patience may pay off big time in the long run.
Don't settle. Good luck.
Sue Tansey
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2005-04-26 01:46
US$33 000 per year?? I don't understand, that seems insane. Is this for post graduate studies or undergraduate? And why so much money?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-26 02:11
$33K is not that much for Undergrad. My daughter was looking at a High School which was $22K a year (the most costly one here is $29K!!)
And yes, that is absurdly expensive! In a perfect world, private high school would cost $5000 a year, and college undergrad for a private college would be $8000 a year, state schools would cost $3000 a year.
But then I guess our wages for teaching clarinet lessons would be only $10 an hour too.........
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-04-26 02:17
contra- yes, indeed, it is... as is our education system, in that it is insanely high, which brings me to my response to Aussie Nick: yes, USD $33,000 per year. Insane? yes. I believe NYU is in the $40s (correct me if I am worng...I was going to apply, but remember cost deterring me)... Ithaca was about $35,000 per year....get my drift? $17,000 per year is like nothing NOW, but apparently was unheard of like, what? 20 years ago? maybe even more recently, I don't know. Call it the government's preoccupation with the military rather than education... (*twitch*) Yes, this is for undergrad studies. why so much money? maybe they like keeping the poor poor, but need to also keep them uneducated as well? *shrug* maybe they want to turn americans into war machines rather than intelligent minds? hmmm... a thing to contemplate to be sure. Why the h*** is education so d*mn expensive?!
3dogmom- thank you for that. it gives me some perspective. though...mom...home....ONE YEAR.... urmph. perhaps I could forgo it, but... I guess it's a question of giving up something like a great college experience based solely on the wish to get away from home. Yes...your post makes me think...
susannah- I have talked to the clarinet teacher at Hartt School of music(Hartford University), and going to be in touch with the Central CTSU clarinet teacher, and am in touch with the band director at Hartt and a professor at both Hartt and Central (he's been at Central for longer...Hartt for just a year. I guess he got his masters at Hartt...)
I have also talked to financial aid and secretaries (?) of the music department at both CCSU and UHart. (but mostly at Hartt...)
I took the tour at CCSU and talked to the guide a bit and sat in for a short period of time at one of CCSU's orchestra rehersals. I played with a partial band at Hartt (of students who happened to be there and who were willing to play...)
and yea, I have been given more options. more confusion, but I'm still thinkin'! (oi).
-Lindsie
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-04-26 08:41
It seems to me that if you have a chance to go to your school of choice, even at a reduced schedule, you might come out ahead. Would you still be able to study with the clarinet instructor and participate in ensembles? If so, it seems like a good foot in the door. In the meantime, you can get some academics and electives out of the way, which would give some flexibility to your schedule in future years.
Allen Cole
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2005-04-26 11:34
I am in my final year of undergraduate music studies here - I have spent my degree studying at two respectable australian universities, here in Brisbane the Queensland Conservatorium (part of Griffith University) and in Melbourne at the Victorian College of the Arts (Melbourne University) and my fees have been between AU$3000-$4000 per year. International full-fee paying students pay something like AU$10000-$15000 a year I believe. Those US$30000 fees I find difficult to comprehend!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-04-26 12:43
Aussie Nick wrote:
> International full-fee
> paying students pay something like AU$10000-$15000 a year I
> believe. Those US$30000 fees I find difficult to comprehend!
It depends where you're going and where you live. A state school such as University of Michigan's Grad School for music (a very fine music school) is about 28K USD/year for out-of-state students, about half that for in-state students.
One of my sons is a junior (upper level undergrad) at U of Mich studying actuarial science. His tuition is about 9K/year right now - but as out-of-state it would have been 27K! The School of Music charges just about the same.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-04-26 13:24
allen- yes, he told me I could study with him if this is the plan I choose. He also talked to the band director (since I haven't been able to get in touch with him...hurray for phone tag!) and apparently I could participate in an ensemble for no credit (so I can still take up to 8 credits and not have band count towards part of the 8) and at no cost.
....still not so sure about paying for college. Is there anyone here who is still paying off student loans (preferably someone in their late 30s, early 40s, since I expect to be paying off loans until then provided I go to hartt). I'd like to know how big of a factor cost should be in my decision. Should I pass up this oppritunity because of all the loans I have to pay off and the amount per year I'd have to pay? My mom's income isnt that high.... I think it's like $25-30,000 per year....or thereabouts (and she's single with one other kid in college...he's a sophomore trying to transfer out of a $30,000/yr college into something more like $16,000 I believe).
thanks again for the input!!
-Lindsie
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-04-26 13:52
You know, I honestly think that is one reason college costs are spiraling out of control -- over the past 30 years or so we have gotten used to the prospect of going into debt up to our eyeballs to pay for college, and with that money available for students there is less incentive for colleges to control costs.
Yes , Lindsie, it can take awhile to pay off the loans, but usually it is in the early years of repayment that it is more difficult because most people make more when they are 30 than they do when they are 23.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-04-26 15:16
Quote:
You know, I honestly think that is one reason college costs are spiraling out of control -- over the past 30 years or so we have gotten used to the prospect of going into debt up to our eyeballs to pay for college, and with that money available for students there is less incentive for colleges to control costs.
Yes , Lindsie, it can take awhile to pay off the loans, but usually it is in the early years of repayment that it is more difficult because most people make more when they are 30 than they do when they are 23.
yea, that and the lack of money going to education...1/3 of ed programs are being cut... we're in a $427 billion dollar deficit and the administration has decided that about $420 billion dollars should go to......military. why not education?! that's about 48% of Bush's proposed budget going to military, 80 billion of that to Iraq! Sorry if I am getting to political here, I just feel that for someone with talent and a great potential for growth, it is unfair that I should have to struggle t get into college when education should be top priority. especially education of future teachers, as they seem to be declining. The arts is seriously underfunded. $121 million to the arts, compared to $5.47 billion to science. Not to say science is unimportant, I want a cure for cancer just as badly as the next person, but look at the disparitites! Education, among other programs is only 19% of the government spending and more and more people are either choosing not to go to college (at least not right away), settling for something lesser because of cost, or killing themselves to pay for overly-expensive colleges (which, yes, David, is expensive, like it or not. It costs more than my mother makes in a year; I'd qualify that as expensive. yes, it's not going to change for me, so I should accept it, but that doesn't mean I'll agree with it or call $33,000 "fairly unexpensive")
but that's the world we live in, where education takes a back seat to military and war.
anyway..wow! what a digression! is it WORTH paying off loans? is life unbearable when one is in debt? I don't suppose I'd be rolling in money as a teacher, especially right out of college, but...
another thing I was thinking of is- should I go to a "lesser" undergrad school and shoot for an awsome grad school? what is he difference in experiences at each?
-Lindsie
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2005-04-26 15:18
One reason why college educational costs have spiraled out of control is due to the plethora of programs which fail to come close to covering their own expenses. If you look at college catalogs from 40-30even 20 years ago and compare them with the current offerings you'll see a huge increase in programs which come with tenured staff, offices, infrastructure costs etc.
I am a friend of a college president and we have had several discussions on this very issue and although that isn't the only factor it is a significant part. At many universities there are numerous departments which run at huge deficits but which have become untouchable because of social/political interests on the campus. As a result, every student ends up supporting these programs. At the particular school my friend is at, they have 6 departments which have less than 40 students combined with a combined budget exceeding $7.1 million total costs. Tuitions cover less than 1/7th of the budget.
I think the argument that universities have not been diligent in containing costs has merit but the argument posed that this is somehow a result of military spending is totally without merit. I’d be very interested in hearing the argument supporting that position. Also it is worth noting that there are significant differences between how public/state universities are funded versus private institutions. Historically private colleges are much more expensive and the decision as to whether that education is worth double or more than that given at a public/state school is one that has to be made by the student and as talent and finances allow.
Best
Rick
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-04-26 15:38
Rick Williams wrote:
> I am a friend of a college president and we have had several
> discussions on this very issue and although that isn't the only
> factor it is a significant part. At many universities there
> are numerous departments which run at huge deficits but which
> have become untouchable because of social/political interests
> on the campus.
Oh, my, a college president willing to discuss this privately!!! Maybe there is hope after all!!
Rick Williams also wrote:> Historically private colleges are much more expensive and the
> decision as to whether that education is worth double or more
> than that given at a public/state school is one that has to be
> made by the student and as talent and finances allow.
.
Yup, all my older siblings went to state schools because back then most everyone did. Whether that is "fair" or desirable is another discussion entirely.
At my kids' school we have a registration meeting every spring, and the principal and school board actually get in front of the parents and go over the numbers for the coming year.. You can bet that they have to try to justify those numbers. And two pieces of the long range strategic plan are accessibility and affordability, and they talk about what they are doing in these areas as well. This is more likely in a primary or high school situation where the parents are expected to be involved.
Post Edited (2005-04-26 15:39)
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Author: supernova_khr
Date: 2005-04-26 16:33
To Aussie Nick,
Here's a web site detailing costs at the university in question. 22K is for tuition, ~10K is for room and board. (1 Australian dollar today is ~78 cents US)
http://admission.hartford.edu/financing/costs.php
I'm in the position (with a junior in high school) of looking into college costs all over the US. The ~10K for room and board and books is standard no matter where one goes. Tuitions that we've looked into vary from 3K (in state at a small public school) to 5K (at our state's flagship university) to 24K (my alma mater which is a public univeristy in California) t0 ~30K at Cornell.
One question for Lindsie...will you be able to apply for more financial aid after you've been a student for a year? How much can you earn working summers and during the year? Minimizing loans is a good thing, but keep in mind you'll need that 10K for living expenses no matter where you go. Also, if what you want to do is teach, then maybe you would be better off going to the school with with better education program, irrespective of finances. My son's wonderful junior high band director (who had taught for 10 years) just switched jobs into administration (mainly for better hours and better pay), but she couldn't have done that had she not gone to a stellar education school and taken all those classes required for administrators.
Keep all your options open, but perhaps it would be good to go revisit each of the schools you're considering. And, ask lots of questions about the possibility of transfering credits from community college or the state school you're considering. When I was an undergrad, lots of people were only able to afford to get a degree from a big name school by going to community college for 2 years and transferring credits.
Good luck,
KayR
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-04-26 17:12
The cost of college in the USA is a very complicated situation, not due to one overriding thing.
This is not a place for political rants of any kind, left right, or middle of the road. Please leave those out. The cost of an education in the USA is what it is; please support the programs you want in the appropriate venue.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-04-26 17:44
Hi,
We have had some very interesting discussions about state universities, tuitions, and music education in the past. As a graduate of three state universities here in Ohio, I am a strong supporter of such education, not only in music but in other fields. I also had wonderful and skilled professors at every institution.
Attending your state's land-grant university or a second tier school is truly an educational bargain. While it is great to be able to attend a prestigious private school, you have to pay the price.
Check out this thread.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=148302&t=148292
HRL
PS I have always been somewhat of an egalitarian rather than an elitist.
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